Tradewinds 747 Wreck in MDE

[kevdog]

Keep digging. You'll wind-up based in China in a few more posts.

Yes, CNN International out of China probably pays even more!

 

[mvedepo]

This thread is ridiculous. Arent there any moderators out there? If this thread is going to be nothing more then a sh*t throwing contest then lock it. Nothing good is coming out of it.

And as for the guys pointing fingers at the flight crew with nothing more then assumptions. They shouldn't be allowed on FlightInfo. We are a community and for the most part should be here for eachother. Maybe someday you will be the one that everyone here is pointing fingers at.

 

[Draginass]

Posters that want to speculate on the cause of an accident, especially inferring in any way that it's the crews fault, ought to pour themselves a great big cup of STFU before going on the computer.

 

[Irishav8r]

This thread is ridiculous. Arent there any moderators out there? If this thread is going to be nothing more then a sh*t throwing contest then lock it. Nothing good is coming out of it.

And as for the guys pointing fingers at the flight crew with nothing more then assumptions. They shouldn't be allowed on FlightInfo. We are a community and for the most part should be here for eachother. Maybe someday you will be the one that everyone here is pointing fingers at.

Thankyou!
This crap is exhausting and I think its part of the pilot Dik measuring contest as to who sounds more intelligent. I certainly hate listening to it in crew-rooms and I really don't like reading it here. Bunch of Prima donnas!

 

[Superpilot92]

http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1150113287/Plane_Going_To_Fast_For_The_Runwayhttp://www.dumpalink.com/media/11501...For_The_Runway

video of accident.

Mind the other stuff on the site.

 

[metrodriver]

maybe lay the blame by the FAA for allowing rediculous duty and rest times for international operations (no duty time limit for 3 man crews). 16 to 24 hr duty days are not uncommon. Time up between sleep periods routinely exceed 30 hrs. Just go to the MIA customs office when these crews come back from dodging cumulus granite in the middle of the night at crappy S. American airports and see how awake they are.
Want an example: fly all night, come back in the hotel at 0900, sleep 5 hours (your body has a hard time sleepingin the day time) and have to report at 2200 for a scheduled 13 hr duty day for a MIA-BOG-MDE-MIA turn. At 2130 scheduling call that the flight has been pushed back 2 hours.
When arriving in BOG there is no parking space, so sit on a taxiway for 2 hrs (1st delay). Now you can pull in and load the flowers. When you're ready to go MDE is fogged in, another 2 hr delay. After loading in MDE you find out us customs has problems clearing the inbound cargo. Another hour delay. This thing is turning into a 18 hr duty day (the 2 hr schedule delay is not part of this).
Finally you come to MIA and find out that the computer at customs doesn't work and you have to wait another hour outside in the 90 degree heat. Oh, don't forget your duty time ends 30 min after setting the parking brake (at 1800). So there went your first hour of the 12 hr block-to-block rest period and haven't even entered the country yet! Another hour and you finally made it to your hotel room at 2000. 28 hrs since show time. Add the other 7 hours that you were up since 1400 and you've been up 35 hrs.
Now you can go to sleep at night and according to the FAA you're good for a 0600 release of the parking brake for another day with a unlimited duty time. Subtract 1.5 hours for show time, another 1 hr for the wake-up and travel-to-airport routine and there's a maximum of 7.5 hrs sleep. This doesn't even include some wind-down time or a bite to eat.

And we wonder why people drive aircraft of the end of runways. It's just a big surprise that there are not more often incidents / accidents.
Now the FAA will do all kind of line checks and ramp checks to see how poorly the crews operate, instead of trying to get the duty / rest times adjusted to a more humane level. Yet that change will be resisted by the operators that see their crewcost increase. The same operators that threaten to fire you if you want to go to a hotel down range or refuse a trip because of fatigue (I know some guys that kept their job because of their Alpa membership, most of these crews flying to S.America don't have the luxury of a union backing them)

 

[mushroom]

Great post, Metro. And unfortunately, too true.

The FAA will only respond (and maybe not even then) if there is a high body count fatal accident that was shown by the NTSB to be caused by fatigue. Fatigue issues for cargo carriers, especially second-tier ones, don't mean a thing to the FAA. After all, if we crash, it's only a maximum of three people killed. Who cares, right? :angryfire

 

[USMCmech]

N922FT....She was a good Ship......

The sad thig is she just went through a heavy C check in SAT less than a year ago. All that work down the drain.

I personally X-rayed all the wing attach points, crawling in and out of the fuel tanks a couple of hundred times (I was bruised from head to toe for about a week).

 

[kevdog]

maybe lay the blame by the FAA for allowing rediculous duty and rest times for international operations (no duty time limit for 3 man crews). 16 to 24 hr duty days are not uncommon. Time up between sleep periods routinely exceed 30 hrs. Just go to the MIA customs office when these crews come back from dodging cumulus granite in the middle of the night at crappy S. American airports and see how awake they are.
Want an example: fly all night, come back in the hotel at 0900, sleep 5 hours (your body has a hard time sleepingin the day time) and have to report at 2200 for a scheduled 13 hr duty day for a MIA-BOG-MDE-MIA turn. At 2130 scheduling call that the flight has been pushed back 2 hours.
When arriving in BOG there is no parking space, so sit on a taxiway for 2 hrs (1st delay). Now you can pull in and load the flowers. When you're ready to go MDE is fogged in, another 2 hr delay. After loading in MDE you find out us customs has problems clearing the inbound cargo. Another hour delay. This thing is turning into a 18 hr duty day (the 2 hr schedule delay is not part of this).
Finally you come to MIA and find out that the computer at customs doesn't work and you have to wait another hour outside in the 90 degree heat. Oh, don't forget your duty time ends 30 min after setting the parking brake (at 1800). So there went your first hour of the 12 hr block-to-block rest period and haven't even entered the country yet! Another hour and you finally made it to your hotel room at 2000. 28 hrs since show time. Add the other 7 hours that you were up since 1400 and you've been up 35 hrs.
Now you can go to sleep at night and according to the FAA you're good for a 0600 release of the parking brake for another day with a unlimited duty time. Subtract 1.5 hours for show time, another 1 hr for the wake-up and travel-to-airport routine and there's a maximum of 7.5 hrs sleep. This doesn't even include some wind-down time or a bite to eat.

And we wonder why people drive aircraft of the end of runways. It's just a big surprise that there are not more often incidents / accidents.
Now the FAA will do all kind of line checks and ramp checks to see how poorly the crews operate, instead of trying to get the duty / rest times adjusted to a more humane level. Yet that change will be resisted by the operators that see their crewcost increase. The same operators that threaten to fire you if you want to go to a hotel down range or refuse a trip because of fatigue (I know some guys that kept their job because of their Alpa membership, most of these crews flying to S.America don't have the luxury of a union backing them)

Great post! The sad reality though is the crew is still held responsible if they erred due to fatigue.

Over 50% of my trips somewhat mirror your above statement. Bring up fatigue issues to your company and they try to hang you out to dry or threaten recurrent training, a PC, or a linecheck on you. You are obviously just complaining. Yes, I have personal experience with this one...sad but true.

 

[Snakum]

And as for the guys pointing fingers at the flight crew with nothing more then assumptions. They shouldn't be allowed on FlightInfo. We are a community and for the most part should be here for eachother.

You're new here, aren't you?