I never set foot in a classroom for any kind of groundschool during my ratings. It was all self study and groundwork with my instructor. In fact, the school didn't even have a complex airplane, much less a multi. Everything Part 61. I got hireed at Comair at 1500 hrs. No one asked me what aviation university I went to. The pilots who did go the university route are all capable pilots, I'm sure, but once your hired it doesn't matter where you went to school. Just remember that there are many ways to become a professional pilot. Riddle, UND, etc are not the only way to go. Neither is the the mom and pop FBO. Enough said.
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compitition
last year nsu's flight team went to grand forks, nd for the national flight team meet, it seems to me it was a place for und to flaunt their 60 billion planes, but thats just me. the safecon meets are the "best" pilots for every university with a flight program, they have ground events(i.e. who can work the almighty E6b the quickest, aircraft id, scan which is the far-aim test) and flying events(such as the"bomb drop and precision landing). it actually is a tool to determine who's program is the best in my opinion. i have never been made fun of about being on the flight team, but then again there is only 40 people enrolled in the program here.
last year nsu's flight team went to grand forks, nd for the national flight team meet, it seems to me it was a place for und to flaunt their 60 billion planes, but thats just me. the safecon meets are the "best" pilots for every university with a flight program, they have ground events(i.e. who can work the almighty E6b the quickest, aircraft id, scan which is the far-aim test) and flying events(such as the"bomb drop and precision landing). it actually is a tool to determine who's program is the best in my opinion. i have never been made fun of about being on the flight team, but then again there is only 40 people enrolled in the program here.
SheGaveMeClap
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ScRaMJeT
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A large part depends on your instructor.
I went as a student to two major flight schools, the first one Spartan and the second one FSI. Spartan definitely sucked up my money, but It was a good flight school and it taught me how to fly and how to fly right.
At FSI if one of your parents flew for a major airline or you were extremely wealthy, you would make it through the program and you would never fail a stage check(no joke). I would take spartan over FSI any day. Even if FSI finished you up in six months, remember you would sit as an intern making $6.00 an hour for 2 years. Before you would even start single engine instructor standardization, at spartan it was almost immediate. At Flight Safety all of their test have gouges(no Joke). Not so at spartan.
If you want to finish it all quickly go to an in-state school that offers a flight program. (Oklahoma state University or Southeastern Oklahoma State University as examples), you'll be an instructor within 2 years. By the time you finish all of your ratings and your degree, its graduation time and bam your ready to go to a Regional or a 135 job.
I don't know of any Regional airline that drops bags of flour out of any of the windows during training, operations or otherwise. If somone says that the best flight school in America is one that rates high in these compeitions then ask them if they can just walk in and get a job, just by saying I went to UND. I'm sure they'll say no.
And remember a lot of what makes a school the best depends on your instructor. Some instructors stink and milk students.
My two cents.
I went as a student to two major flight schools, the first one Spartan and the second one FSI. Spartan definitely sucked up my money, but It was a good flight school and it taught me how to fly and how to fly right.
At FSI if one of your parents flew for a major airline or you were extremely wealthy, you would make it through the program and you would never fail a stage check(no joke). I would take spartan over FSI any day. Even if FSI finished you up in six months, remember you would sit as an intern making $6.00 an hour for 2 years. Before you would even start single engine instructor standardization, at spartan it was almost immediate. At Flight Safety all of their test have gouges(no Joke). Not so at spartan.
If you want to finish it all quickly go to an in-state school that offers a flight program. (Oklahoma state University or Southeastern Oklahoma State University as examples), you'll be an instructor within 2 years. By the time you finish all of your ratings and your degree, its graduation time and bam your ready to go to a Regional or a 135 job.
I don't know of any Regional airline that drops bags of flour out of any of the windows during training, operations or otherwise. If somone says that the best flight school in America is one that rates high in these compeitions then ask them if they can just walk in and get a job, just by saying I went to UND. I'm sure they'll say no.
And remember a lot of what makes a school the best depends on your instructor. Some instructors stink and milk students.
My two cents.
generaltso
Marcy Projects
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I'm gonna break this down for ya'll. I got a 4 year degree at ERAU. After reading all these comments, some are very valid. First are foremost, I always thought the flying team was gay. They would were there shirts around school like they were bad asses. Seeing who can get a number out of a whiz wheel the fastest, or seeing who has the best pilotage isn't going to get you an airline job. In my opinion, the flying team was a waste of time but I did get a good laugh out of the guys who took it seriously. Even some of the profs at ERAU got a good laugh.
Is ERAU expensive? Yes. Is it worth it? Your d a m n straight - IF you take advantage of what it has to offer. One of the things I took advantage of are internships. ERAU has programs set up with a lot of differnet airlines, and many people that go through these internships get on with the airline who they previously worked for. Imagine going in to an interview with a major, saying you worked for this company, and having great contacts and letters of rec. You can't put a value on that stuff. But a lot of other schools have the internship programs set up, but I think ERAU has the most programs established (in fact I am sure they do).
Will you be able to land a job with just a ERAU degree? Hell no. Will it get you the interview? Fat chance. But if you do these internships, you have a leg in at some companies it would otherwise take very long to get to.
If I had to do it all over again, I would do a couple things different. I believe this is a great way to be on the fast track to a career at the majors:
Graduate high school, the earlier you can start flying the better. Once you graduate high school, go to a community college and take some general classes that you can transfer to ERAU (make sure to check with ERAU if these will be eligible - most of the general ed requirements are very easy to transfer, such as math, english, psych, economics, and so on).
While your in community college, keep doing your flight training. I would say a year of community college, going full time (summers too), and doing your training while at it. If the person has the right motivation, I think they can easily get Private - CFI in a year.
So now, you have about 36 college credits (4 classes a semester) and you have everything up to your CFI. All those certs and ratings will get you about 20 credits at ERAU. Now, you have 56 credits going in to ERAU, and you get a degree with 123.
Once at ERAU, take some classes (the aviation classes there are wonderful - in my opinion - I can't imagine topping them. VERY knowledagle profs). You will be focusing on aviation classes, since you got most of your gen ed done at community college (but if you were unable, finish those up).
Since you already have your CFI, you can instruct as much or as little as you desire while taking classes. If your on the ball, instructing and taking classes is not a problem.
Now the key is - do a few internships. As many as you can afford. When you do an internship at ERAU, ERAU gets $400 or so. Other colleges take a lot more. On most internships, you will have to pay for your food and lodging, but it is nothing compared to the benefits you will reap, both long and short term. I would say do three internships with major airlines. That is one year out of your life for three excellent opportunities. If just one works out, you've got a 30 year career at a good company. Since your going to be building your time as a CFI, I wouldn't waste my time with regional bridge programs.
So you have three internships, that is 18 credits (elective credits - of which you can only have 12). Add that to the 56 you had before and your up to 68. So 123 (credits to graduate) - 68 is 55 credits you need to take at ERAU (classes, all required to graduate). Thats about a year, taking 18 credits in spring summer and fall.
So that puts us at three years, but even if you slack you should be able to come in under 4. And that is with THREE internships. The gen ed and flying coming in is the KEY POINT. Your time now, hopefully, should be up to around 1200 (depending on whether you instructed during the internships - I wouldn't... enjoy them!) But I think your time is limited to your desire, there are always plenty of students, even if you have to instuct off campus.
Once you graduate, get a job at a regional, upgrade, then... remember that year of work you put in, well it will pay off soon. Apply at the companies you worked for and see what happens.
That is just my take on it. ERAU is a good school, and you can make it affordable by doing it right. Yes, you don't get the public school experience (you'll get laid later anyway)... but if you want a career at the majors, this is the way to go. Could you do this program with UND or Purdue, sure, it would probably work the same way although I can't speak on the internship programs at those schools, although I know they have some.
Hopefully someone in high school wanting a career in aviation will read this some day. I wish I had it laid out to me like this!!
Good luck!
Is ERAU expensive? Yes. Is it worth it? Your d a m n straight - IF you take advantage of what it has to offer. One of the things I took advantage of are internships. ERAU has programs set up with a lot of differnet airlines, and many people that go through these internships get on with the airline who they previously worked for. Imagine going in to an interview with a major, saying you worked for this company, and having great contacts and letters of rec. You can't put a value on that stuff. But a lot of other schools have the internship programs set up, but I think ERAU has the most programs established (in fact I am sure they do).
Will you be able to land a job with just a ERAU degree? Hell no. Will it get you the interview? Fat chance. But if you do these internships, you have a leg in at some companies it would otherwise take very long to get to.
If I had to do it all over again, I would do a couple things different. I believe this is a great way to be on the fast track to a career at the majors:
Graduate high school, the earlier you can start flying the better. Once you graduate high school, go to a community college and take some general classes that you can transfer to ERAU (make sure to check with ERAU if these will be eligible - most of the general ed requirements are very easy to transfer, such as math, english, psych, economics, and so on).
While your in community college, keep doing your flight training. I would say a year of community college, going full time (summers too), and doing your training while at it. If the person has the right motivation, I think they can easily get Private - CFI in a year.
So now, you have about 36 college credits (4 classes a semester) and you have everything up to your CFI. All those certs and ratings will get you about 20 credits at ERAU. Now, you have 56 credits going in to ERAU, and you get a degree with 123.
Once at ERAU, take some classes (the aviation classes there are wonderful - in my opinion - I can't imagine topping them. VERY knowledagle profs). You will be focusing on aviation classes, since you got most of your gen ed done at community college (but if you were unable, finish those up).
Since you already have your CFI, you can instruct as much or as little as you desire while taking classes. If your on the ball, instructing and taking classes is not a problem.
Now the key is - do a few internships. As many as you can afford. When you do an internship at ERAU, ERAU gets $400 or so. Other colleges take a lot more. On most internships, you will have to pay for your food and lodging, but it is nothing compared to the benefits you will reap, both long and short term. I would say do three internships with major airlines. That is one year out of your life for three excellent opportunities. If just one works out, you've got a 30 year career at a good company. Since your going to be building your time as a CFI, I wouldn't waste my time with regional bridge programs.
So you have three internships, that is 18 credits (elective credits - of which you can only have 12). Add that to the 56 you had before and your up to 68. So 123 (credits to graduate) - 68 is 55 credits you need to take at ERAU (classes, all required to graduate). Thats about a year, taking 18 credits in spring summer and fall.
So that puts us at three years, but even if you slack you should be able to come in under 4. And that is with THREE internships. The gen ed and flying coming in is the KEY POINT. Your time now, hopefully, should be up to around 1200 (depending on whether you instructed during the internships - I wouldn't... enjoy them!) But I think your time is limited to your desire, there are always plenty of students, even if you have to instuct off campus.
Once you graduate, get a job at a regional, upgrade, then... remember that year of work you put in, well it will pay off soon. Apply at the companies you worked for and see what happens.
That is just my take on it. ERAU is a good school, and you can make it affordable by doing it right. Yes, you don't get the public school experience (you'll get laid later anyway)... but if you want a career at the majors, this is the way to go. Could you do this program with UND or Purdue, sure, it would probably work the same way although I can't speak on the internship programs at those schools, although I know they have some.
Hopefully someone in high school wanting a career in aviation will read this some day. I wish I had it laid out to me like this!!
Good luck!
bobbysamd
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Southeastern State
I'll second Southeastern Oklahoma State U., in Durant, I believe. It has a well-known program. I met someone who learned to fly there. This gal had flown freight for a couple of years, but when I met her for a BFR she hadn't flown for years. I flew with her and while she was rusty it was clear to me she had good instruction and knew how to fly.
In fact, this experience got me interested in considering instructing in a university program.
I won't say the ERAU Flight Team was a joke, but my recollection was there were a few ringers on the team who were not AS majors. In addition, at least a couple of their coaches were not flight line employees.
I'll second Southeastern Oklahoma State U., in Durant, I believe. It has a well-known program. I met someone who learned to fly there. This gal had flown freight for a couple of years, but when I met her for a BFR she hadn't flown for years. I flew with her and while she was rusty it was clear to me she had good instruction and knew how to fly.
In fact, this experience got me interested in considering instructing in a university program.
I won't say the ERAU Flight Team was a joke, but my recollection was there were a few ringers on the team who were not AS majors. In addition, at least a couple of their coaches were not flight line employees.
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The quality of instruction comes down to each individual instructor. I've worked at a small school and now I teach at one of the big name schools. Both schools had really good instructors and poor instructors. The only difference is at the big name school there is more paperwork after each flight. If you're a student and the instruction your getting stinks, change instructors, not schools.
This whole thread is mostly absurd. It sounds mostly like a bunch of dorky pilots talking about how schools placed in flying competitions.
Info on Dorky Pilots
This whole thread is mostly absurd. It sounds mostly like a bunch of dorky pilots talking about how schools placed in flying competitions.
Info on Dorky Pilots
SheGaveMeClap
Your wife's boyfriend
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- 447
Wiggums:
Your information on "dorky pilots" was right on. It's a generalization about a certain group of pilots (won't say which ones, or which schools) but it's absolutely true. I run into people at airports that say they have "guaranteed interviews" with Northwest once they reach their mins (1500 and 500) just because they came from one of these schools. Another classic, "I came from ___ and they lowered the minimums for us." That's great, it's a good opportunity for you. But then he stepped on his d*ck by saying, "I expect to interview this spring (with Mesaba), and I think they'll put me into the CRJ." Hold on, how much time do you have? "600 and 100, I'm sick of instructing so I'm going to XJ." And what makes you so sure you'll even get an interview, let alone a job? I've run into too many people with these kinds of attitudes. It's irritating, and unfortunately there's too many like him out there. You've got the same tickets we all do, you'll have to work just as hard as we did for all of your jobs. The world owes you nothing.
Your information on "dorky pilots" was right on. It's a generalization about a certain group of pilots (won't say which ones, or which schools) but it's absolutely true. I run into people at airports that say they have "guaranteed interviews" with Northwest once they reach their mins (1500 and 500) just because they came from one of these schools. Another classic, "I came from ___ and they lowered the minimums for us." That's great, it's a good opportunity for you. But then he stepped on his d*ck by saying, "I expect to interview this spring (with Mesaba), and I think they'll put me into the CRJ." Hold on, how much time do you have? "600 and 100, I'm sick of instructing so I'm going to XJ." And what makes you so sure you'll even get an interview, let alone a job? I've run into too many people with these kinds of attitudes. It's irritating, and unfortunately there's too many like him out there. You've got the same tickets we all do, you'll have to work just as hard as we did for all of your jobs. The world owes you nothing.
aero99
just a member, not senior
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- 394
nsu quote "I got my private through a pt.61 FBO, i am now enrolled at northwestern state which is a 141. it simply depends on what you like. personally i like 61 more, but i still enjoy 141. there seems to be more b.s.... alot more b.s. when going through 141 but i thinks its well worth it; i seem to get more bang for my buck 141, however, in 61 its not nearly as regid and has a more relaxed approach. you can work as fast or as slow as you want in 61, if you have trouble with something you can go up with an instructor anytime, in 141 you are on a specific time slot. it simply depends on you."
This isn't true. You can train via 141 as fast or slow as you want to, it is just more structured training in when you do what. If something isn't getting through you can spend 50 hours practicing if you want. You can and should be able to go to an instructor anytime on 141. And you are not on any "time slot".
NSU I don't know what kinda flight school N.W. is , but doesn't sound like you are in 141 or don't understand its criteria.
This is off the original subject, but thought I'd throw in 2 pennies.
This isn't true. You can train via 141 as fast or slow as you want to, it is just more structured training in when you do what. If something isn't getting through you can spend 50 hours practicing if you want. You can and should be able to go to an instructor anytime on 141. And you are not on any "time slot".
NSU I don't know what kinda flight school N.W. is , but doesn't sound like you are in 141 or don't understand its criteria.
This is off the original subject, but thought I'd throw in 2 pennies.
Caveman
Grandpa
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General Tso,
Your training plan is the right idea except it won't work at Riddle. I have a two year degree in general studies from an accredited school. I decided that I probably should finish up and get my four year degree so I contacted the local satellite campus of Riddle to see what it would cost. At the time I already was a CFII, MEI and had about 1200 dual given. They gave me 36 hours credit for my flight time and certificates. So far so good. I figured my two year degree plus basically a year credit for ratings and I'll have to do about a years worth of classes to get a BS in Aeronautical Science degree from ERAU. Maybe 40-45 credit hours tops. Wrong! Take my two year degree and add in the flight time credit of 36 hours and they still wanted me to do another 90 hours or so! Essentially they wanted me to do another three years of school. They gave me a grand total of 6 credit hours for all of my associate degree. My degree wasn't from Harvard but it was a legitimate accredited school. I knew that some classes may not have transferred but only 6 credit hours out of almost 70?!? It's all about the money.
Your training plan is the right idea except it won't work at Riddle. I have a two year degree in general studies from an accredited school. I decided that I probably should finish up and get my four year degree so I contacted the local satellite campus of Riddle to see what it would cost. At the time I already was a CFII, MEI and had about 1200 dual given. They gave me 36 hours credit for my flight time and certificates. So far so good. I figured my two year degree plus basically a year credit for ratings and I'll have to do about a years worth of classes to get a BS in Aeronautical Science degree from ERAU. Maybe 40-45 credit hours tops. Wrong! Take my two year degree and add in the flight time credit of 36 hours and they still wanted me to do another 90 hours or so! Essentially they wanted me to do another three years of school. They gave me a grand total of 6 credit hours for all of my associate degree. My degree wasn't from Harvard but it was a legitimate accredited school. I knew that some classes may not have transferred but only 6 credit hours out of almost 70?!? It's all about the money.
generaltso
Marcy Projects
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Caveman:
I understand what your saying, and I am sure you are not the first to be shafted like that. ERAU is a school, but a business too. They want to make money. But, it is also a place where they are MANY ways around things. In my 4 years there, on several occasions I had to use non standard techniques to "get what I wanted" (since I am the customer).
To get around what happened to you, what you could do is apply and enroll in the school. Take a distance class or something (you may not have to take anything). Then, submit the paperwork for request to take off campus classes. They are probably A LOT more inclined to give you permission and then credit, then just give you the credit.
The bulk of the credit at ERAU is the aviation classes, and it is difficult to get credit for those. About 65 credits (this depends on your area of concentration, minors, etc.) of the 120 are aero sci classes, most of which you must take at ERAU.
The 6 credits deal sounds bogus, but typical. If you've got the BS diploma from ERAU, they are going some $$ from ya.
Wiggums:
The guard is one way, but I don't think it is the fastest way to the majors. I am not discounting it at all, I think it is a great option... but if your ultimate goal is the majors as quick as you can, I think your better of staying out of the military.
I understand what your saying, and I am sure you are not the first to be shafted like that. ERAU is a school, but a business too. They want to make money. But, it is also a place where they are MANY ways around things. In my 4 years there, on several occasions I had to use non standard techniques to "get what I wanted" (since I am the customer).
To get around what happened to you, what you could do is apply and enroll in the school. Take a distance class or something (you may not have to take anything). Then, submit the paperwork for request to take off campus classes. They are probably A LOT more inclined to give you permission and then credit, then just give you the credit.
The bulk of the credit at ERAU is the aviation classes, and it is difficult to get credit for those. About 65 credits (this depends on your area of concentration, minors, etc.) of the 120 are aero sci classes, most of which you must take at ERAU.
The 6 credits deal sounds bogus, but typical. If you've got the BS diploma from ERAU, they are going some $$ from ya.
Wiggums:
The guard is one way, but I don't think it is the fastest way to the majors. I am not discounting it at all, I think it is a great option... but if your ultimate goal is the majors as quick as you can, I think your better of staying out of the military.
aero99: you are right. i stated what i was trying to say wrong. first off i am enrolled at a part 141 flight school. if you dont believe me visit www.nsula.edu look under aviation. second what i was trying to say is the paper work and b.s. is alot more at a 141 school, and you must under go stage checks before you procede to a different section of your syllabus. in 61 stage checks dont exsist, at least not where i trained. these stage checks must be taken with the chief flight instructor who, generally, is very busy and can be tough to schedule flights with, which can slow your training down signifigantly. and this might just be at nsu, but we get appointed a time slot at the begining of every semester.
National Flight Team Meet??? I don't think I have ever heard of something so freakin gay... If I had seen them shuttin there engines down together, taxing in formation (youve got to be sh#ting me!) and struttin around the ramp like idiots, I would have busted a nut laughing at them! Its unbelievable what these kids are thinkin.. Anyway, to the original poster, get your tickets through a part 61 school and go to a good public university and get a degree that has nothing to do with aviation... trust me, ...my buddies that have kids in college and that are on furlough whish they had.... my .02
Bluto
Well-known member
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- Dec 15, 2001
- Posts
- 1,147
Generaltso,
You laid down some good advice on your previous post. However, as a Riddle grad myself, I'd really appreciate it if you spell-checked your posts before bragging about the fine quality of education you received at ERAU.
To everyone who recommends a non-aviation degree in the event of a furlough, I must say a college degree with no practical experience is next to worthless in today's market. I have furloughed buddies with business degrees driving a school bus. Granted, I wish I had more options now, but having another degree doesn't guarantee a job either.
You laid down some good advice on your previous post. However, as a Riddle grad myself, I'd really appreciate it if you spell-checked your posts before bragging about the fine quality of education you received at ERAU.
To everyone who recommends a non-aviation degree in the event of a furlough, I must say a college degree with no practical experience is next to worthless in today's market. I have furloughed buddies with business degrees driving a school bus. Granted, I wish I had more options now, but having another degree doesn't guarantee a job either.
SheGaveMeClap
Your wife's boyfriend
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Floyd,
That was no joke. Those Riddle guys taxied in formation all the way to the ramp, parked four abreast, and pulled the mixtures all at the same time so the engines quit simultaneously. It made me half ill. Then they paraded around the ramp in their pajamas that looked like a Navy flight suit. Give me a break. If Riddle turns you into a queer like them, I'm glad I had nothing to do with the school. However, I have three good friends from my airline that attended Riddle and none of them are like that. The three of them always made fun of the flying team guys. Rightfully so. On the other hand, I know many more people who attended Riddle and probably were on the flying team. We make fun of them now. I really don't like flying with 'em. Most of them came from the semen-hole at ERAU and can't fly the RJ to save their lives. As they say, if it doesn't kill you, it only makes you stronger. I have a new respect for the IOE check airmen who fly with these guys.
That was no joke. Those Riddle guys taxied in formation all the way to the ramp, parked four abreast, and pulled the mixtures all at the same time so the engines quit simultaneously. It made me half ill. Then they paraded around the ramp in their pajamas that looked like a Navy flight suit. Give me a break. If Riddle turns you into a queer like them, I'm glad I had nothing to do with the school. However, I have three good friends from my airline that attended Riddle and none of them are like that. The three of them always made fun of the flying team guys. Rightfully so. On the other hand, I know many more people who attended Riddle and probably were on the flying team. We make fun of them now. I really don't like flying with 'em. Most of them came from the semen-hole at ERAU and can't fly the RJ to save their lives. As they say, if it doesn't kill you, it only makes you stronger. I have a new respect for the IOE check airmen who fly with these guys.
MetroSheriff
Hittin' the road...
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
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I remember my ASA interview well. They made us do precision landings, synchronized taxi, and drop flour bombs from the deck of the ATR sim. The Riddle and UND boys kicked my ass, boy howdy. Then we had an E6B spinning competition and they smoked me again. It was real humiliating.
Please tell me that those fight-team hot shots weren't wearing silk scarves....
Note to moderator: I think this entire thread should be moved to the YGSM! forum.
Please tell me that those fight-team hot shots weren't wearing silk scarves....
Note to moderator: I think this entire thread should be moved to the YGSM! forum.
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