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I know that Embry-Riddle comes in as #1. Who comes in for second place?
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SheGaveMeClap
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According to who?
browntail
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I second the comment that Riddle is the best at sucking your money away! Go to a public four year university with a good flight school. I suggest finding one that offers lots of internships with the majors and a good previous job placement record. You will get the same education and have a lot more fun at the public university.
A good start would be to look at the collegiate flying competitions and see who regularly finishes in the top three.
Good Luck
A good start would be to look at the collegiate flying competitions and see who regularly finishes in the top three.
Good Luck
If you were to look at how schools finish in national flight comptitions Riddle, UND and Western Mich, would be your top schools. But as far as Riddle sucking your money, I personally think any private aviation school does a fine job at that, not just Riddle. Just my .02 cents
bobbysamd
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No. 1 School??
I worked at Riddle-Prescott for a year and a half and FSI-Vero for a year and a month. Therefore, I consider myself to be qualified to opine on both.
Both places do their respective jobs well, and, yes, both schools will suck off your money. Riddle indeed provides a great education. Riddle's ground schools are okay, but where Riddle excels is in providing a great education, in teaching flight phys, aerodynamics and especially systems. Riddle's flight training is okay. We learned and taught our students plenty about flows. Getting airplanes at Riddle was almost always a challenge because we always had plenty of students and not enough airplanes. When I was at Riddle eleven years ago students typically finished on campus before they finished flying, and had finished the ground school appropriate to their current flight course long before they would start the course. Therefore, flight line instructors had to provide a lot of remedial ground school training. That frustrated both students and instructors, especially because the ground school wasn't always in sync with the flight line. And we all must pass the same exams to teach the same subjects?
Riddle has an option to earn initial certification either in singles or multis. Most students chose the multis and graduated with at least 50 hours of multi. If they chose the multi track, they did get a commercial single as an add-on, but it was part of the course.
There's no question whatsoever that an ERAU degree means something in this business. Whether it carries more weight than a degree from Smallville State U. is always a subject of debate. Moreover, possessing a Riddle degree seems to antagonize a great many people. Riddle offers quite a few internships that can open doors.
FSI differs from Riddle. It is the typical large commercial flight school. Ground school provides a basic background and enough to pass the writtens. The flight training is fine quality. One thing I liked about FSI was spins and unusual attitudes were part of the course. When I was there they used 152 Aerobats and Decathlons. Now, they use Zlins. Initial certification for Commercial and Instrument is in the multis. I believe that it costs extra to earn a Commercial single. FSI was challanging because it would train people for their Commercial-Instrument in six months. Students HAD to keep up, or else. Ground school was in sync with the flight training. There were always plenty of aircraft. I don't recall ever canxing a flight for students because I couldn't get airplanes.
Of course, FSI has its connections, p-f-t and otherwise, with various commuters.
Hope this comparision furthers this discussion. Once again, both schools have their roles and their pros and cons.
I worked at Riddle-Prescott for a year and a half and FSI-Vero for a year and a month. Therefore, I consider myself to be qualified to opine on both.
Both places do their respective jobs well, and, yes, both schools will suck off your money. Riddle indeed provides a great education. Riddle's ground schools are okay, but where Riddle excels is in providing a great education, in teaching flight phys, aerodynamics and especially systems. Riddle's flight training is okay. We learned and taught our students plenty about flows. Getting airplanes at Riddle was almost always a challenge because we always had plenty of students and not enough airplanes. When I was at Riddle eleven years ago students typically finished on campus before they finished flying, and had finished the ground school appropriate to their current flight course long before they would start the course. Therefore, flight line instructors had to provide a lot of remedial ground school training. That frustrated both students and instructors, especially because the ground school wasn't always in sync with the flight line. And we all must pass the same exams to teach the same subjects?
Riddle has an option to earn initial certification either in singles or multis. Most students chose the multis and graduated with at least 50 hours of multi. If they chose the multi track, they did get a commercial single as an add-on, but it was part of the course.
There's no question whatsoever that an ERAU degree means something in this business. Whether it carries more weight than a degree from Smallville State U. is always a subject of debate. Moreover, possessing a Riddle degree seems to antagonize a great many people. Riddle offers quite a few internships that can open doors.
FSI differs from Riddle. It is the typical large commercial flight school. Ground school provides a basic background and enough to pass the writtens. The flight training is fine quality. One thing I liked about FSI was spins and unusual attitudes were part of the course. When I was there they used 152 Aerobats and Decathlons. Now, they use Zlins. Initial certification for Commercial and Instrument is in the multis. I believe that it costs extra to earn a Commercial single. FSI was challanging because it would train people for their Commercial-Instrument in six months. Students HAD to keep up, or else. Ground school was in sync with the flight training. There were always plenty of aircraft. I don't recall ever canxing a flight for students because I couldn't get airplanes.
Of course, FSI has its connections, p-f-t and otherwise, with various commuters.
Hope this comparision furthers this discussion. Once again, both schools have their roles and their pros and cons.
Last edited:
SheGaveMeClap
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Choose a school according to who finishes in the top three in the flying competitions?!?!?!?! Give me a break. Sorry Browntail, but that's some of the worst advice I've ever seen. Unbelievable.... Flying competitions mean absolutely nothing. In my opinion (and everyone's entitled to one), the flying competition is to see who can taxi in formation the best. Story time: I was flying charter (during college) and sitting in Grand Forks, ND, home of UND. The flying competition was going to be that week and the Riddle guys showed up in their 152s, or 172s, or whatever is was they flew in. They taxied onto the ramp in formation, and pulled the mixtures at the same time so their engines died at the same time. They walked across the ramp in military-style formations, it was crazy. To be honest, it was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. I laughed my a$$ of for the rest of the day watching those guys in those little military-wanna-be flight suits wandering around the ramp. One of them came into the FBO where I was sitting and we started talking. I was flying a Navajo at the time on a 135 ticket and he about shot a load looking through my airplane. It brought him down from his high, almighty place above everyone else. He figured out there was a life in aviation outside of Riddle.
The best place to learn to fly is different for everyone. I know guys from my airline with a "bachelor of science in aviation science" degree from UND or Riddle, they are now furloughed, and have to resort to stocking shelves at the grocery store. Meanwhile, their counterparts who have a useful degree are getting productive jobs as loan officers, real estate agents, and police officers to pass the time until they get called back.
I'm glad I took the route I did. I went to a four year university for a degree in criminal justice. I finished up all of my ratings at the FBO in town and started instructing my third year of college. After a year, I had enough time built up to get on the 135 certificate flying pax and freight in our Navajo, Seneca and 421. When I got out of college, I had 1800 hours and got right into a regional flying a 1900. Less than two years later, I am in the left seat of our ERJs. If I ever end up furloughed (knock on wood) I'll have a degree to fall back on, and can still find a decent job.
When considering a flight school (or FBO), look into all options. I'm sure UND and Riddle are good schools, but you'll pay out the nose to get the same ratings the other guy got at his FBO for 1/4 the cost. Usually if you find a good FBO, you can find a decent college or university nearby as well. Often times, you'll be able to find someone on the field who needs pilot service done or someone looking for pilots for a turboprop, jet, etc. It's a great place to network. Take it for what it's worth.
The best place to learn to fly is different for everyone. I know guys from my airline with a "bachelor of science in aviation science" degree from UND or Riddle, they are now furloughed, and have to resort to stocking shelves at the grocery store. Meanwhile, their counterparts who have a useful degree are getting productive jobs as loan officers, real estate agents, and police officers to pass the time until they get called back.
I'm glad I took the route I did. I went to a four year university for a degree in criminal justice. I finished up all of my ratings at the FBO in town and started instructing my third year of college. After a year, I had enough time built up to get on the 135 certificate flying pax and freight in our Navajo, Seneca and 421. When I got out of college, I had 1800 hours and got right into a regional flying a 1900. Less than two years later, I am in the left seat of our ERJs. If I ever end up furloughed (knock on wood) I'll have a degree to fall back on, and can still find a decent job.
When considering a flight school (or FBO), look into all options. I'm sure UND and Riddle are good schools, but you'll pay out the nose to get the same ratings the other guy got at his FBO for 1/4 the cost. Usually if you find a good FBO, you can find a decent college or university nearby as well. Often times, you'll be able to find someone on the field who needs pilot service done or someone looking for pilots for a turboprop, jet, etc. It's a great place to network. Take it for what it's worth.
DASHDRIVER
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added opinion
I would have to second the opinion of people who favor state schools for thier quality versus price. Riddle has its nice points, but cost somtimes seems to disperse that value of those. Purdue, U os North Dakota, and W Michigan has very good programs. But it again comes down to whats important to you. UND has amazing facilities, a top notch fleet combined with great camopus resourses. Purdue provides oprotunityies in thier 727 sim and lets you get a FE. West Mich, has a very strong faculty. Everywhere has its ups and downs just take the time to find out what suits your needs, andpoket book best.
I would have to second the opinion of people who favor state schools for thier quality versus price. Riddle has its nice points, but cost somtimes seems to disperse that value of those. Purdue, U os North Dakota, and W Michigan has very good programs. But it again comes down to whats important to you. UND has amazing facilities, a top notch fleet combined with great camopus resourses. Purdue provides oprotunityies in thier 727 sim and lets you get a FE. West Mich, has a very strong faculty. Everywhere has its ups and downs just take the time to find out what suits your needs, andpoket book best.
SheGaveMeClap
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Re: added opinion
I'm not saying these schools are bad, I'm just saying there's other options. These are the big name schools. That's fine and they do a good job, but a newbie to our industry needs to know they don't HAVE to attend these schools to receive QUALITY flight training. Just because private instruction (ie. FBO training) isn't Part 141 and rigid like what you guys when through doesn't mean it's bad training. I'm sure it's hard to believe since you didn't experience it, but it's true. I promise.
Why do you insist on this attitude you can't get quality instruction outside Purdue, UND and Riddle?? DAHSDRIVER, that was one of the most closed-minded statements I've read in a long time. Guess what?? There's life in aviation training OUTSIDE these schools!!DASHDRIVER said:
I'm not saying these schools are bad, I'm just saying there's other options. These are the big name schools. That's fine and they do a good job, but a newbie to our industry needs to know they don't HAVE to attend these schools to receive QUALITY flight training. Just because private instruction (ie. FBO training) isn't Part 141 and rigid like what you guys when through doesn't mean it's bad training. I'm sure it's hard to believe since you didn't experience it, but it's true. I promise.
DASHDRIVER
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Clap or Crack?
I never said it wasn't possible to get a good education outside of a four year school. There is other ave's to get to the airlines or where ever. I was just stateing that these programs are of high quality at a lower price than some others and your still come out with a credited B.S. that could be used as a back up to a flying job too.
I never said it wasn't possible to get a good education outside of a four year school. There is other ave's to get to the airlines or where ever. I was just stateing that these programs are of high quality at a lower price than some others and your still come out with a credited B.S. that could be used as a back up to a flying job too.
FlyinBrian
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I can't resist this thread
Basically, you have to find a school that is right for your needs. Everyone has different goals, finances, and personal values. I will tell you that while FSI is well respected as a training center, it DOES NOT set the standard for all other schools, and to say that ERAU is the best out there is a shaky statement at best.
I have experience at 2 different local part 141 FBO's, ERAU, and a state university program. I will tell you that for me, I could not imagine having finished my training with either ERAU or the state University program. I went to ERAU for one semester and left because the semester cost me more than 6 grand! I also took some elective credits to finish my polisci degree form the flight program at ASU. Both programs were ridiculously expensive, over-bureaucratic, and were convinced that their excrement didn't stink. They had the attitude that is pretty much reviled outside of their own little dream world. I did a degree program totally outside of aviation while I finished my ratings at a local part 141 FBO. I then obtained full time instructor employment at the FBO while I finished my degree. I graduated college in 4 years with 1200 hours, 100 multi, and got my degree/ratings for MUCH MUCH less money than it would have cost me at either of the university programs. In addtion, I am on furlough, and working a decent job that I could not have gotten if I had an aeronautical science degree. It was probably a lot more work than a University program since my ratings didn't earn me any college credit, but I'd say it was well worth it.
One of my students did his private cert. with me and then went to ERAU. He was fed up with the attitude and bureaucracy after being in the AS program for a couple weeks. He still goes to ERAU, but changed his major and is doing his ratings at a local FBO in prescott where he is much happier.
I hope you find these experiences helpful, and I would encourage you to investigate all of the many options available to you before you choose the method by which you earn your career. I'll tell you one thing, you don't want to be trying to pay down $80,000 worth of debt on a regional airline pilot salary.
Basically, you have to find a school that is right for your needs. Everyone has different goals, finances, and personal values. I will tell you that while FSI is well respected as a training center, it DOES NOT set the standard for all other schools, and to say that ERAU is the best out there is a shaky statement at best.
I have experience at 2 different local part 141 FBO's, ERAU, and a state university program. I will tell you that for me, I could not imagine having finished my training with either ERAU or the state University program. I went to ERAU for one semester and left because the semester cost me more than 6 grand! I also took some elective credits to finish my polisci degree form the flight program at ASU. Both programs were ridiculously expensive, over-bureaucratic, and were convinced that their excrement didn't stink. They had the attitude that is pretty much reviled outside of their own little dream world. I did a degree program totally outside of aviation while I finished my ratings at a local part 141 FBO. I then obtained full time instructor employment at the FBO while I finished my degree. I graduated college in 4 years with 1200 hours, 100 multi, and got my degree/ratings for MUCH MUCH less money than it would have cost me at either of the university programs. In addtion, I am on furlough, and working a decent job that I could not have gotten if I had an aeronautical science degree. It was probably a lot more work than a University program since my ratings didn't earn me any college credit, but I'd say it was well worth it.
One of my students did his private cert. with me and then went to ERAU. He was fed up with the attitude and bureaucracy after being in the AS program for a couple weeks. He still goes to ERAU, but changed his major and is doing his ratings at a local FBO in prescott where he is much happier.
I hope you find these experiences helpful, and I would encourage you to investigate all of the many options available to you before you choose the method by which you earn your career. I'll tell you one thing, you don't want to be trying to pay down $80,000 worth of debt on a regional airline pilot salary.
SheGaveMeClap
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Re: added opinion
Just out of curiousity, what kind of back up job can you get with a bachelor of science in aviation studies, let's say, if you lose your medical? My point is that getting a degree in something other than aviation is a good idea, and it's something for a newbie to consider. I'm sure others have done the same thing. It's not a dumb thing to do.
I'll quote what you said again. Read this again and tell me you aren't saying "state schools are higher quality." You didn't go through Part 61, so you have no idea. However, I did go to UND for one semester and decided it wasn't the program for me. I've seen both sides, and the Part 141 wasn't for me. Don't get all defensive about it.DASHDRIVER said:
Just out of curiousity, what kind of back up job can you get with a bachelor of science in aviation studies, let's say, if you lose your medical? My point is that getting a degree in something other than aviation is a good idea, and it's something for a newbie to consider. I'm sure others have done the same thing. It's not a dumb thing to do.
I got my private through a pt.61 FBO, i am now enrolled at northwestern state which is a 141. it simply depends on what you like. personally i like 61 more, but i still enjoy 141. there seems to be more b.s.... alot more b.s. when going through 141 but i thinks its well worth it; i seem to get more bang for my buck 141, however, in 61 its not nearly as regid and has a more relaxed approach. you can work as fast or as slow as you want in 61, if you have trouble with something you can go up with an instructor anytime, in 141 you are on a specific time slot. it simply depends on you.
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Embry-Riddle is hands down the best of the best. The rigorous academic program along with the numerous internships and direct-hire programs are what makes it numero uno. UND may have a good program, but they don't even come close to ERAU.
SheGaveMeClap
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How can you guys possibly equate the best flight training and college education to who wins that silly little flying competition? I have a former student at UND and according to him, all of the guys on that flight team get made fun of. Sounds to me like they were the little guys that got beat up all the time on the playground.