Top Schools

[Since 1926]

I know that Embry-Riddle comes in as #1. Who comes in for second place?

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

According to who?

 

[Wiggums]

Depends on your criteria. What are you looking for? Riddle is great when your looking for highest total cost. So is FlightSafety and PanAm.

 

[browntail]

I second the comment that Riddle is the best at sucking your money away! Go to a public four year university with a good flight school. I suggest finding one that offers lots of internships with the majors and a good previous job placement record. You will get the same education and have a lot more fun at the public university.

A good start would be to look at the collegiate flying competitions and see who regularly finishes in the top three.

Good Luck

 

[Chunk]

FSI

I think it is safe to say that FSI is a top flight school. It is expensive, but it sets the standards for flight schools!

Chunk

 

[Soxfan]

If you were to look at how schools finish in national flight comptitions Riddle, UND and Western Mich, would be your top schools. But as far as Riddle sucking your money, I personally think any private aviation school does a fine job at that, not just Riddle. Just my .02 cents

 

[Chunk]

FSI isn't NAFI

I don't know if it was your assertion to say that FSI wasn't high in the SAFECON rankings or not, but FSI isn't eligible since it isn't a university, just a flight school.

Chunk

 

[Soxfan]

By all means I not saying Flight Safety in not a really good school if not the best. I was just replying to the prevous post about NIFA competions. I have had many friends and students go on to FSI and recieved great training.

 

[bobbysamd]

No. 1 School??

I worked at Riddle-Prescott for a year and a half and FSI-Vero for a year and a month. Therefore, I consider myself to be qualified to opine on both.

Both places do their respective jobs well, and, yes, both schools will suck off your money. Riddle indeed provides a great education. Riddle's ground schools are okay, but where Riddle excels is in providing a great education, in teaching flight phys, aerodynamics and especially systems. Riddle's flight training is okay. We learned and taught our students plenty about flows. Getting airplanes at Riddle was almost always a challenge because we always had plenty of students and not enough airplanes. When I was at Riddle eleven years ago students typically finished on campus before they finished flying, and had finished the ground school appropriate to their current flight course long before they would start the course. Therefore, flight line instructors had to provide a lot of remedial ground school training. That frustrated both students and instructors, especially because the ground school wasn't always in sync with the flight line. And we all must pass the same exams to teach the same subjects?

Riddle has an option to earn initial certification either in singles or multis. Most students chose the multis and graduated with at least 50 hours of multi. If they chose the multi track, they did get a commercial single as an add-on, but it was part of the course.

There's no question whatsoever that an ERAU degree means something in this business. Whether it carries more weight than a degree from Smallville State U. is always a subject of debate. Moreover, possessing a Riddle degree seems to antagonize a great many people. Riddle offers quite a few internships that can open doors.

FSI differs from Riddle. It is the typical large commercial flight school. Ground school provides a basic background and enough to pass the writtens. The flight training is fine quality. One thing I liked about FSI was spins and unusual attitudes were part of the course. When I was there they used 152 Aerobats and Decathlons. Now, they use Zlins. Initial certification for Commercial and Instrument is in the multis. I believe that it costs extra to earn a Commercial single. FSI was challanging because it would train people for their Commercial-Instrument in six months. Students HAD to keep up, or else. Ground school was in sync with the flight training. There were always plenty of aircraft. I don't recall ever canxing a flight for students because I couldn't get airplanes.

Of course, FSI has its connections, p-f-t and otherwise, with various commuters.

Hope this comparision furthers this discussion. Once again, both schools have their roles and their pros and cons.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Choose a school according to who finishes in the top three in the flying competitions?!?!?!?! Give me a break. Sorry Browntail, but that's some of the worst advice I've ever seen. Unbelievable.... Flying competitions mean absolutely nothing. In my opinion (and everyone's entitled to one), the flying competition is to see who can taxi in formation the best. Story time: I was flying charter (during college) and sitting in Grand Forks, ND, home of UND. The flying competition was going to be that week and the Riddle guys showed up in their 152s, or 172s, or whatever is was they flew in. They taxied onto the ramp in formation, and pulled the mixtures at the same time so their engines died at the same time. They walked across the ramp in military-style formations, it was crazy. To be honest, it was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. I laughed my a$$ of for the rest of the day watching those guys in those little military-wanna-be flight suits wandering around the ramp. One of them came into the FBO where I was sitting and we started talking. I was flying a Navajo at the time on a 135 ticket and he about shot a load looking through my airplane. It brought him down from his high, almighty place above everyone else. He figured out there was a life in aviation outside of Riddle.

The best place to learn to fly is different for everyone. I know guys from my airline with a "bachelor of science in aviation science" degree from UND or Riddle, they are now furloughed, and have to resort to stocking shelves at the grocery store. Meanwhile, their counterparts who have a useful degree are getting productive jobs as loan officers, real estate agents, and police officers to pass the time until they get called back.

I'm glad I took the route I did. I went to a four year university for a degree in criminal justice. I finished up all of my ratings at the FBO in town and started instructing my third year of college. After a year, I had enough time built up to get on the 135 certificate flying pax and freight in our Navajo, Seneca and 421. When I got out of college, I had 1800 hours and got right into a regional flying a 1900. Less than two years later, I am in the left seat of our ERJs. If I ever end up furloughed (knock on wood) I'll have a degree to fall back on, and can still find a decent job.

When considering a flight school (or FBO), look into all options. I'm sure UND and Riddle are good schools, but you'll pay out the nose to get the same ratings the other guy got at his FBO for 1/4 the cost. Usually if you find a good FBO, you can find a decent college or university nearby as well. Often times, you'll be able to find someone on the field who needs pilot service done or someone looking for pilots for a turboprop, jet, etc. It's a great place to network. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[DASHDRIVER]

added opinion

I would have to second the opinion of people who favor state schools for thier quality versus price. Riddle has its nice points, but cost somtimes seems to disperse that value of those. Purdue, U os North Dakota, and W Michigan has very good programs. But it again comes down to whats important to you. UND has amazing facilities, a top notch fleet combined with great camopus resourses. Purdue provides oprotunityies in thier 727 sim and lets you get a FE. West Mich, has a very strong faculty. Everywhere has its ups and downs just take the time to find out what suits your needs, andpoket book best.

 

[NSUDemon]

actually UND came in #1 at safecon compition,riddle came in second, nsu 127 =(

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Re: added opinion

I would have to second the opinion of people who favor state schools for thier quality versus price.

Why do you insist on this attitude you can't get quality instruction outside Purdue, UND and Riddle?? DAHSDRIVER, that was one of the most closed-minded statements I've read in a long time. Guess what?? There's life in aviation training OUTSIDE these schools!!

I'm not saying these schools are bad, I'm just saying there's other options. These are the big name schools. That's fine and they do a good job, but a newbie to our industry needs to know they don't HAVE to attend these schools to receive QUALITY flight training. Just because private instruction (ie. FBO training) isn't Part 141 and rigid like what you guys when through doesn't mean it's bad training. I'm sure it's hard to believe since you didn't experience it, but it's true. I promise.

 

[DASHDRIVER]

Clap or Crack?

I never said it wasn't possible to get a good education outside of a four year school. There is other ave's to get to the airlines or where ever. I was just stateing that these programs are of high quality at a lower price than some others and your still come out with a credited B.S. that could be used as a back up to a flying job too.

 

[FlyinBrian]

I can't resist this thread

Basically, you have to find a school that is right for your needs. Everyone has different goals, finances, and personal values. I will tell you that while FSI is well respected as a training center, it DOES NOT set the standard for all other schools, and to say that ERAU is the best out there is a shaky statement at best.

I have experience at 2 different local part 141 FBO's, ERAU, and a state university program. I will tell you that for me, I could not imagine having finished my training with either ERAU or the state University program. I went to ERAU for one semester and left because the semester cost me more than 6 grand! I also took some elective credits to finish my polisci degree form the flight program at ASU. Both programs were ridiculously expensive, over-bureaucratic, and were convinced that their excrement didn't stink. They had the attitude that is pretty much reviled outside of their own little dream world. I did a degree program totally outside of aviation while I finished my ratings at a local part 141 FBO. I then obtained full time instructor employment at the FBO while I finished my degree. I graduated college in 4 years with 1200 hours, 100 multi, and got my degree/ratings for MUCH MUCH less money than it would have cost me at either of the university programs. In addtion, I am on furlough, and working a decent job that I could not have gotten if I had an aeronautical science degree. It was probably a lot more work than a University program since my ratings didn't earn me any college credit, but I'd say it was well worth it.

One of my students did his private cert. with me and then went to ERAU. He was fed up with the attitude and bureaucracy after being in the AS program for a couple weeks. He still goes to ERAU, but changed his major and is doing his ratings at a local FBO in prescott where he is much happier.

I hope you find these experiences helpful, and I would encourage you to investigate all of the many options available to you before you choose the method by which you earn your career. I'll tell you one thing, you don't want to be trying to pay down $80,000 worth of debt on a regional airline pilot salary.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Re: added opinion

I would have to second the opinion of people who favor state schools for thier quality versus price.

I'll quote what you said again. Read this again and tell me you aren't saying "state schools are higher quality." You didn't go through Part 61, so you have no idea. However, I did go to UND for one semester and decided it wasn't the program for me. I've seen both sides, and the Part 141 wasn't for me. Don't get all defensive about it.

Just out of curiousity, what kind of back up job can you get with a bachelor of science in aviation studies, let's say, if you lose your medical? My point is that getting a degree in something other than aviation is a good idea, and it's something for a newbie to consider. I'm sure others have done the same thing. It's not a dumb thing to do.

 

[NSUDemon]

I got my private through a pt.61 FBO, i am now enrolled at northwestern state which is a 141. it simply depends on what you like. personally i like 61 more, but i still enjoy 141. there seems to be more b.s.... alot more b.s. when going through 141 but i thinks its well worth it; i seem to get more bang for my buck 141, however, in 61 its not nearly as regid and has a more relaxed approach. you can work as fast or as slow as you want in 61, if you have trouble with something you can go up with an instructor anytime, in 141 you are on a specific time slot. it simply depends on you.

 

[Since 1926]

Embry-Riddle is hands down the best of the best. The rigorous academic program along with the numerous internships and direct-hire programs are what makes it numero uno. UND may have a good program, but they don't even come close to ERAU.

 

[NSUDemon]

just go to the safecon national flight team compitition if you wanna see who the best are. UND win last year, i think ERAU the year before that.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

How can you guys possibly equate the best flight training and college education to who wins that silly little flying competition? I have a former student at UND and according to him, all of the guys on that flight team get made fun of. Sounds to me like they were the little guys that got beat up all the time on the playground.

 

[skyboat]

I never set foot in a classroom for any kind of groundschool during my ratings. It was all self study and groundwork with my instructor. In fact, the school didn't even have a complex airplane, much less a multi. Everything Part 61. I got hireed at Comair at 1500 hrs. No one asked me what aviation university I went to. The pilots who did go the university route are all capable pilots, I'm sure, but once your hired it doesn't matter where you went to school. Just remember that there are many ways to become a professional pilot. Riddle, UND, etc are not the only way to go. Neither is the the mom and pop FBO. Enough said.

 

[NSUDemon]

compitition

last year nsu's flight team went to grand forks, nd for the national flight team meet, it seems to me it was a place for und to flaunt their 60 billion planes, but thats just me. the safecon meets are the "best" pilots for every university with a flight program, they have ground events(i.e. who can work the almighty E6b the quickest, aircraft id, scan which is the far-aim test) and flying events(such as the"bomb drop and precision landing). it actually is a tool to determine who's program is the best in my opinion. i have never been made fun of about being on the flight team, but then again there is only 40 people enrolled in the program here.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Skyboat:

Nice post. My point exactly. Different strokes for different folks. Do what's best for you.

 

[ScRaMJeT]

A large part depends on your instructor.

I went as a student to two major flight schools, the first one Spartan and the second one FSI. Spartan definitely sucked up my money, but It was a good flight school and it taught me how to fly and how to fly right.

At FSI if one of your parents flew for a major airline or you were extremely wealthy, you would make it through the program and you would never fail a stage check(no joke). I would take spartan over FSI any day. Even if FSI finished you up in six months, remember you would sit as an intern making $6.00 an hour for 2 years. Before you would even start single engine instructor standardization, at spartan it was almost immediate. At Flight Safety all of their test have gouges(no Joke). Not so at spartan.

If you want to finish it all quickly go to an in-state school that offers a flight program. (Oklahoma state University or Southeastern Oklahoma State University as examples), you'll be an instructor within 2 years. By the time you finish all of your ratings and your degree, its graduation time and bam your ready to go to a Regional or a 135 job.

I don't know of any Regional airline that drops bags of flour out of any of the windows during training, operations or otherwise. If somone says that the best flight school in America is one that rates high in these compeitions then ask them if they can just walk in and get a job, just by saying I went to UND. I'm sure they'll say no.

And remember a lot of what makes a school the best depends on your instructor. Some instructors stink and milk students.

My two cents.

 

[generaltso]

I'm gonna break this down for ya'll. I got a 4 year degree at ERAU. After reading all these comments, some are very valid. First are foremost, I always thought the flying team was gay. They would were there shirts around school like they were bad asses. Seeing who can get a number out of a whiz wheel the fastest, or seeing who has the best pilotage isn't going to get you an airline job. In my opinion, the flying team was a waste of time but I did get a good laugh out of the guys who took it seriously. Even some of the profs at ERAU got a good laugh.

Is ERAU expensive? Yes. Is it worth it? Your d a m n straight - IF you take advantage of what it has to offer. One of the things I took advantage of are internships. ERAU has programs set up with a lot of differnet airlines, and many people that go through these internships get on with the airline who they previously worked for. Imagine going in to an interview with a major, saying you worked for this company, and having great contacts and letters of rec. You can't put a value on that stuff. But a lot of other schools have the internship programs set up, but I think ERAU has the most programs established (in fact I am sure they do).

Will you be able to land a job with just a ERAU degree? Hell no. Will it get you the interview? Fat chance. But if you do these internships, you have a leg in at some companies it would otherwise take very long to get to.

If I had to do it all over again, I would do a couple things different. I believe this is a great way to be on the fast track to a career at the majors:

Graduate high school, the earlier you can start flying the better. Once you graduate high school, go to a community college and take some general classes that you can transfer to ERAU (make sure to check with ERAU if these will be eligible - most of the general ed requirements are very easy to transfer, such as math, english, psych, economics, and so on).

While your in community college, keep doing your flight training. I would say a year of community college, going full time (summers too), and doing your training while at it. If the person has the right motivation, I think they can easily get Private - CFI in a year.

So now, you have about 36 college credits (4 classes a semester) and you have everything up to your CFI. All those certs and ratings will get you about 20 credits at ERAU. Now, you have 56 credits going in to ERAU, and you get a degree with 123.

Once at ERAU, take some classes (the aviation classes there are wonderful - in my opinion - I can't imagine topping them. VERY knowledagle profs). You will be focusing on aviation classes, since you got most of your gen ed done at community college (but if you were unable, finish those up).

Since you already have your CFI, you can instruct as much or as little as you desire while taking classes. If your on the ball, instructing and taking classes is not a problem.

Now the key is - do a few internships. As many as you can afford. When you do an internship at ERAU, ERAU gets $400 or so. Other colleges take a lot more. On most internships, you will have to pay for your food and lodging, but it is nothing compared to the benefits you will reap, both long and short term. I would say do three internships with major airlines. That is one year out of your life for three excellent opportunities. If just one works out, you've got a 30 year career at a good company. Since your going to be building your time as a CFI, I wouldn't waste my time with regional bridge programs.

So you have three internships, that is 18 credits (elective credits - of which you can only have 12). Add that to the 56 you had before and your up to 68. So 123 (credits to graduate) - 68 is 55 credits you need to take at ERAU (classes, all required to graduate). Thats about a year, taking 18 credits in spring summer and fall.

So that puts us at three years, but even if you slack you should be able to come in under 4. And that is with THREE internships. The gen ed and flying coming in is the KEY POINT. Your time now, hopefully, should be up to around 1200 (depending on whether you instructed during the internships - I wouldn't... enjoy them!) But I think your time is limited to your desire, there are always plenty of students, even if you have to instuct off campus.

Once you graduate, get a job at a regional, upgrade, then... remember that year of work you put in, well it will pay off soon. Apply at the companies you worked for and see what happens.

That is just my take on it. ERAU is a good school, and you can make it affordable by doing it right. Yes, you don't get the public school experience (you'll get laid later anyway)... but if you want a career at the majors, this is the way to go. Could you do this program with UND or Purdue, sure, it would probably work the same way although I can't speak on the internship programs at those schools, although I know they have some.

Hopefully someone in high school wanting a career in aviation will read this some day. I wish I had it laid out to me like this!!
Good luck!

 

[bobbysamd]

Southeastern State

I'll second Southeastern Oklahoma State U., in Durant, I believe. It has a well-known program. I met someone who learned to fly there. This gal had flown freight for a couple of years, but when I met her for a BFR she hadn't flown for years. I flew with her and while she was rusty it was clear to me she had good instruction and knew how to fly.

In fact, this experience got me interested in considering instructing in a university program.

I won't say the ERAU Flight Team was a joke, but my recollection was there were a few ringers on the team who were not AS majors. In addition, at least a couple of their coaches were not flight line employees.

 

[Wiggums]

The quality of instruction comes down to each individual instructor. I've worked at a small school and now I teach at one of the big name schools. Both schools had really good instructors and poor instructors. The only difference is at the big name school there is more paperwork after each flight. If you're a student and the instruction your getting stinks, change instructors, not schools.

This whole thread is mostly absurd. It sounds mostly like a bunch of dorky pilots talking about how schools placed in flying competitions.

Info on Dorky Pilots

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Wiggums:

Your information on "dorky pilots" was right on. It's a generalization about a certain group of pilots (won't say which ones, or which schools) but it's absolutely true. I run into people at airports that say they have "guaranteed interviews" with Northwest once they reach their mins (1500 and 500) just because they came from one of these schools. Another classic, "I came from ___ and they lowered the minimums for us." That's great, it's a good opportunity for you. But then he stepped on his d*ck by saying, "I expect to interview this spring (with Mesaba), and I think they'll put me into the CRJ." Hold on, how much time do you have? "600 and 100, I'm sick of instructing so I'm going to XJ." And what makes you so sure you'll even get an interview, let alone a job? I've run into too many people with these kinds of attitudes. It's irritating, and unfortunately there's too many like him out there. You've got the same tickets we all do, you'll have to work just as hard as we did for all of your jobs. The world owes you nothing.

 

[aero99]

nsu quote "I got my private through a pt.61 FBO, i am now enrolled at northwestern state which is a 141. it simply depends on what you like. personally i like 61 more, but i still enjoy 141. there seems to be more b.s.... alot more b.s. when going through 141 but i thinks its well worth it; i seem to get more bang for my buck 141, however, in 61 its not nearly as regid and has a more relaxed approach. you can work as fast or as slow as you want in 61, if you have trouble with something you can go up with an instructor anytime, in 141 you are on a specific time slot. it simply depends on you."

This isn't true. You can train via 141 as fast or slow as you want to, it is just more structured training in when you do what. If something isn't getting through you can spend 50 hours practicing if you want. You can and should be able to go to an instructor anytime on 141. And you are not on any "time slot".

NSU I don't know what kinda flight school N.W. is , but doesn't sound like you are in 141 or don't understand its criteria.

This is off the original subject, but thought I'd throw in 2 pennies.

 

[Wiggums]

generaltso: Good points, and good suggestions. If I went back and did it again I would have joined the ANG right out of high school. I'd be at UPT right now, and the government would have paid the bulk of my education and flight training costs.