Told Ya!!!!!!!!

[Live4flyng]

This isn't quite true. A vote took place during the Travel Air days. That vote failed. It is my guess that it failed because of the lack of success by the Teamsters at NJ's. Your old MEC and Union let you down.

And this isn't quite true either. "A vote took place during the Travel Air days." It didn't fail because of a lack of success by the Teamsters at NJA, we had not even begun negotiations on the contract at the time. How can you measure success that way and use it as an excuse for a failed vote? Our old MEC is gone and so is the old union! Strong Union was formed by the pilot group and to this day is funded by the pilot group until we have our own Local. NJA pilots have overcome some huge hurdles despite the company, MEC and Local. If we can overcome those 3 major things, a small pilot group of 900 or so should be able to send in a DAM card. It's your future and time is ticking!

 

[leardawg]

Hey Flightbag! Take a chill pill! By the looks of your experience, it looks light you've been around for a while, so it's kind of sad to see you so bitter and caustic after a lengthy career (almost makes me want to quit flying before I wind up as a cantankerous old fart myself!).

As far as forming a union is concerned, you can't paint all of us FLOPS guys with the same brush. There are many who would consider a union, but who aren't particularly wild about IBT. Others do not want a union for a number of reasons ( some, especially ex-military types, consider it anathema). I respect differing opinions on both sides of the argument, but I (as well as many others I have talked to) are gradually coming around to the conclusion that some kind of representation is going to be necessary if we are going to stay at FLOPS for any length of time. I am open to a fractional pilots union negotiating reasonable solutions to our complaints, from a position of strength and mutual respect. I am not interested in management bashing, protecting the incompetent, or making unreasonable demands (there are always those whom, after being told they will only have to fly on Tuesdays and Thursdays and get paid $300,000 a year, will raise a stink about being made to fly on Thursdays!). I do feel we have legitimate gripes (the list of which seems to be growing daily, lately), but am under no illusion that any union is going to wave a magic wand and make them all go away. Nobody, including Flight Options, owes me a living. I do believe that if they want someone to work for them, it is within that person's right to ask for adequate compensation and working conditions. If their response is for us to go s**t in our hats, then I will find employement elsewhere (or see the threat of enough people doing so to make them change their stance). It's that plain and simple, without having to resort to name calling and the pounding of fists on the table. I have other "irons in the fire", and EVERY pilot I know at FLOPS is actively looking for something else. We're just waiting to see what happens in the next few months before making a decision of whether or not to move on to another job (with a whole new set of gripes!).





















9

 

[minimums]

Live4

And this isn't quite true either. "A vote took place during the Travel Air days." It didn't fail because of a lack of success by the Teamsters at NJA, we had not even begun negotiations on the contract at the time. How can you measure success that way and use it as an excuse for a failed vote? Our old MEC is gone and so is the old union! Strong Union was formed by the pilot group and to this day is funded by the pilot group until we have our own Local. NJA pilots have overcome some huge hurdles despite the company, MEC and Local. If we can overcome those 3 major things, a small pilot group of 900 or so should be able to send in a DAM card. It's your future and time is ticking!

As I stated, "It was MY guess". Just a guess because I didn't work for Travel Air. Your "original" contract was what many consider "sub-par". In pay, it definately was, you deserve to be paid more than you are. But, in the same breath, it is a contract and what you have is yours, it can't be taken away. I would say that it is a double-edge sword. The fact is, I sent in my card over 2 years ago. We haven't heard anything from Don T. since March 4, 2004.

I can not force each pilot to sign a card and send it in. They will have to make the decision themselves, which shouldn't be hard to do considering the state of things at FLOPS.

I just don't understand the mentality of some people who belittle others on this board. When is the "mine's bigger than yours" kindergarden mentality going to change? If the pilot groups are divided, then management wins.

 

[Live4flyng]

I wasn't trying to belittle you at all. I agree about the unity issue and NJA pilots are more united now than they have ever been. The contract we have in my opinion is not a double edged sword at all. The only way it can be changed is through negotiations or a legal job action. There are many things that need to be changed in it, but we are protected against any last minute decisions by management to change our work rules and pay (even though it sucks). One more thing about our current contract, it was ratified in 1998. Most of the guys who ratified it are/were working for the airlines and some came back to NJA after 9/11. I would hate to see 900+ pilots lose their jobs overnight because management isn't being truthful. If you are organized, it may make life a little easier if you were to be aquired by another company.

 

[minimums]

I wasn't trying to belittle you at all. I agree about the unity issue and NJA pilots are more united now than they have ever been. The contract we have in my opinion is not a double edged sword at all. The only way it can be changed is through negotiations or a legal job action. There are many things that need to be changed in it, but we are protected against any last minute decisions by management to change our work rules and pay (even though it sucks). One more thing about our current contract, it was ratified in 1998. Most of the guys who ratified it are/were working for the airlines and some came back to NJA after 9/11. I would hate to see 900+ pilots lose their jobs overnight because management isn't being truthful. If you are organized, it may make life a little easier if you were to be aquired by another company.

I agree. I hope others will wake up soon and join reality.

 

[FracCapt]

Hey FracCapt:

I also hope I meet you on the road. I prefer face to face meetings myself. What do you fly?

Hawker. Sometimes the 800, sometimes the XP. If you see a guy with a nearly shaved head(think first day in boot camp haircut) in a FLOPS Hawker, come on over and see if it's me.

 

[hawkercpt]

or

look for a guy with longer black hair with a bad attitude in a flops hawker. I'd like a word with you as well.

 

[FracCapt]

look for a guy with longer black hair with a bad attitude in a flops hawker. I'd like a word with you as well.

I can vouch for that.

 

[leardawg]

You guys won't get an answer; the booze has worn off by now.

 

[Flightbag]

Hey FracCapt & hawkercpt:

I'll look for both of your bad asses. We should be able to have a meaningful conversation.

I can certainly understand the bad attiude. I'd have a bad attitude also if I were you. The difference is, I would attempt to do something about it.

Flightbag

 

[inverted1]

Hmmmm

Wow this is getting interesting. I am with FLOPS and yes a little frustrated! But to hear Flightbag spouting off says a lot about our nemesis. I paid my union dues and in the end Pi$$ed away a lot of money.

FLight bag.... what has the union done for you? Still waiting for a contract eh? Oh yes, there was a TA and it brought you guys up to what us FLOPS guys are being paid. Everyone that thinks we are going to get 20%, 30 % or 100% payraises is nuts. You see a company has to be making money in order to pay it out in Salaries. I have yet to see a fractional that is truly in the black yet! If you guys are so gung ho... I suggest you strike and show us all up! Do you think the company will survive a strike? Try it and FLOPS will absorb every bit of business you had and will ever get.

Imagine Joe millionare calling up to have his pretty little NJA Citation pick him up and take him to Vegas for his Million dollar business deal and OOOPS "I am sorry, our pilots are on strike today and your aircraft is parked in CHicago... Please leave me your information and when we get this straightened out we'll give ya a call and schedule that for a later date". You think OL' Joe is going to choose a company with a Union again? Think long and hard Fellas!!!!

I agree that the FLOPS guys need to step in and stop a bad trend, but a new union needs to be formed tailored to Fractional needs. Flightbag has absolutely no room to talk at the moment and I would much rather be at FLOPS without a union than to be at NJA with a union right now. With that much experience, why are you at NJA? I would be retired and enjoying the good life at this point.

Well on a better note... be safe to all of us, cause each accident no matter who's tail number will cost all of us in the long run

Peace

 

[Live4flyng]

Here we go again

FLight bag.... what has the union done for you? Still waiting for a contract eh? Oh yes, they did give you a TA and it brought you guys up to what us FLOPS guys are being paid. Everyone that thinks we are going to get 20%, 30 % or 100% payraises is nuts. You see a company has to be making money in order to pay it out in Salaries. I have yet to see a fractional that is truly in the black yet! If you guys are so gung ho... I suggest you strike and show us all up! Do you think the company will survive a strike? Try it and FLOPS will absorb every bit of business you had and will ever get.

If you paid dues to a union as you claim, then you would know that a union doesn't just hand you a contract. Nothing has been given to us and nothing will ever be given to us. It has to be negotiated. The T/A that was endorsed by our former MEC DID NOT bring our pay up to the enormous salary that you make, it was in fact a pay cut for most of us. Your cute statement about a fractional that needs to make money before it can pay its pilots is way off. Employee salaries are a cost of doing business. Obviously you haven't looked very hard if you "have yet to see a fractional that is truly in the black", NJA happens to be one of them. We may just have to strike and you are going to need quite a few more airplanes if you plan on picking up our slack boss.

 

[minimums]

NetJets won't strike. The Union wouldn't allow it and I don't think a vote would pass to allow a strike.

When was the last pilot strike by anyone (airlines included)?

That's my 2 cents.

 

[Live4flyng]

The Union won't allow it? We are the union, we take the vote. Col. Angus may be right, the IBT is getting closer to decertification by the NJA pilot group.

 

[waveoff]

Hey douchebag...err, flightbag...

Tell us what you look like so one of us can "take a walk" with you. You remind me of this shmuck I used to fly with when I was at FLOPs. Since I no longer work there, perhaps you and I can go for a walk since I don't have anything to lose.

 

[inverted1]

again and again

Well I have to applogize for my ignorance in the financial position of N/J. Having heard from at least 3 of your pilots (2 of them goodfreinds of mine) my understanding was that N/J was still in the Red (and remember that BH is a lot more than just NJ). If what you say is true then By all means you deserve more pay, and I am all for that. I guess my question was never answered to the previous post as to "what has your union done for you"? I am not trying to be an A$$ about it, but you and others are pro-union and I would like to know why. Have they protected you? How have they bettered your position as a pilot group at N/J? How long has it taken "your" MEC to submitt that garbage of a T/A? I would like to be "Sold" on why I should submit my card. Looking at the list of airlines that the Teamsters Represents...I am not to impressed. UPS is the only one that stands out in the crowd.

Are you in agreement that a strike would end the company? I am not sure how they could afford the amount of charter for even 1 day.

And yes you are right, we would need a ton of aircraft to attain the owners that would possibly migrate in the event of a strike. And quite frankly we still have a few airplanes that aren't even RVSM yet and I can't even begin to tell you the mess we are going to face Feb 17th. So the chance of us even making our own owners happy at this point is a Pipe dream.

Finally do you not agree with me in the fact that Teamsters might not be cutting it and that we need union representation that is more tailored toward the fractional industry?

Just my thoughts

 

[hawkercpt]

No no!!!

Douchbag is mine! Please Waveoff. Let me have first crack at the a-hole!!

It would be my pleasure. I too have nothing to loose really,
well, at least if I do,
I guess I just don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**!

Douchbag...


my only thoughts are bring it, don't sing it!


puss

 

[Live4flyng]

Well I have to applogize for my ignorance in the financial position of N/J. Having heard from at least 3 of your pilots (2 of them goodfreinds of mine) my understanding was that N/J was still in the Red (and remember that BH is a lot more than just NJ). If what you say is true then By all means you deserve more pay, and I am all for that. I guess my question was never answered to the previous post as to "what has your union done for you"? I am not trying to be an A$$ about it, but you and others are pro-union and I would like to know why. Have they protected you? How have they bettered your position as a pilot group at N/J? How long has it taken "your" MEC to submitt that garbage of a T/A? I would like to be "Sold" on why I should submit my card. Looking at the list of airlines that the Teamsters Represents...I am not to impressed. UPS is the only one that stands out in the crowd.

Are you in agreement that a strike would end the company? I am not sure how they could afford the amount of charter for even 1 day.

And yes you are right, we would need a ton of aircraft to attain the owners that would possibly migrate in the event of a strike. And quite frankly we still have a few airplanes that aren't even RVSM yet and I can't even begin to tell you the mess we are going to face Feb 17th. So the chance of us even making our own owners happy at this point is a Pipe dream.

Finally do you not agree with me in the fact that Teamsters might not be cutting it and that we need union representation that is more tailored toward the fractional industry?

Just my thoughts

From the D.O.T.
NETJETS LARGE AIRCRAFT COMPANY, L.L.C.

(formerly BNJ Charter Company, L.L.C.) Docket OST-2004-18595​

​

​

​

​

On October 4, 2004, BNJC requested that the Department register its new corporate name "NetJets Large Aircraft Company, L.L.C." and reissue its certificates in its new name. On October ~ 19, we orally acknowledged the registration and change of BNJC's corporate-name to "NetJets Large Aircraft Company, L.L.C." and issued a notice confirming this action. In April 2004, the Department satisfactorily concluded a review of the carrier’s first year of operations. By letter dated November 3, 2004, the Department denied confidential treatment to NJLA’s cumulative income statement, as well as its balance sheet dated July 3 1, 2004. As a result, on November 24, 2004, the applicant filed this information in the public docket. Under NetJets’ ownership, NJLA will become a wholly owned subsidiary of NetJets Large Aircraft, Inc. (NLA), a Delaware corporation wholly owned by NetJets. NetJets is wholly owned by OBH, Inc., which, in turn, is wholly owned by Berkshire Hathaway, Inc.

Moreover, NJLA’s current financial condition is quite healthy. For the eight months ended August 3 1, 2004, the company earned net profits of $2.2 million on $5.6 million in operating revenues, and at July 31, 2004, it had approximately $4.8 million in cash, positive working capital of $6.6 million, and $6.5 million in total equity. Further, there are no outstanding judgments, charges of unfair or deceptive or anticompetitive actions, or accident or incident investigations open against the carrier.​

 

[inverted1]

Point well made...and yes I will eat my words! I agree, you need to make much more than you guys are... I just hope the union helps you get there.

Although this proves that N/J is financially able to pay you, It still does not answer the question of "What has the union done for you"?

Size 10.5 is hard to shove in but I will manage.

fly safe!!

 

[toa2mdt]

where did they get the definiton of that one anyway?

 

[Flightbag]

To hawkercpt amd waveoff:

First off, you scare the hell out of me. I never thought a simple post would bring such hostility.

You seem to want to attack me physically. I'm up for it so I will give as accurate discription of myself as I can.

I'm about 6 feet 2 (or so) 205 lbs. or so. I'm a WM and I wear a netjets uniform when I'm on duty.

By the way, am I your enemy?

Flightbag

 

[Semore Butts]

Ummmm???

Time will obviously answer all these questions.

I just figure there is a reason that all major airlines have unions.

Options and Flexjet have in the past tried to form unions. There must at least be some people there that feel it is necessary.

I don't blame any anti union opinions for thinking the way they do.

I just tell you that I feel better having union representation, then I did a Flex not having it.

There is alot of progress going on with Netjets that doesn't make it over here from our website. Please dont say "Oh yeah, what?" I don't have time to move all the information over to this board, and don't know if it is appropriate. (I'm a little busy in Iraq besides)

I would like to see all of us go union and establish a viable industry. I think we will eventually. We will stay the course we are on and hopefully we will set an example you will all want to follow.

Until then, I will remember the good times with all my Netjet and Flexjet buddies.

Your all good people and would probably be great friends.

So bitch, fight, complain, and make counter accusations, you are all the same people, just working for differnt companies.

 

[dime line]

Semore Butts......So bitch, fight, complain, and make counter accusations, you are all the same people, just working for differnt companies.


Dude well said!!!!!!!

 

[waveoff]

To hawkercpt amd waveoff:

First off, you scare the hell out of me. I never thought a simple post would bring such hostility.

You thought wrong.

You seem to want to attack me physically. I'm up for it so I will give as accurate discription of myself as I can.

Bring it.

I'm about 6 feet 2 (or so) 205 lbs. or so. I'm a WM and I wear a netjets uniform when I'm on duty.

Not a good enough description but I'll work with it and keep my eyes peeled.

By the way, am I your enemy?

You could be.

Also, stop lying about your experience in your profile. If you really had that much experience in all those planes you wouldn't be flying at NetJets...unless you're a real fµ(kup. Even Chuck Yeager doesn't have that many type ratings. MS Flight Simulator doesn't count. So stop living in your fantasy world and just admit that you're another troll here looking for attention. Contrary to popular belief, listing all of that fake experience you claim to have doesn't make everyone here want to bow down before you. You may think you're God's gift to aviation but we all know you're just a loser. Have a nice day.

 

[Flightbag]

OK "waveoff":

Now you're starting to piss me off! What do you look like.

It's been a while since I've had to deal with juveniles such as your self, but I'm still up for it.

Too bad you can't seem to direct all this hostility towards your real enemy.

Flightbag

 

[waveoff]

OK "waveoff":

Now you're starting to piss me off!

Why? Because I pointed out that you're a poseur with your BS experience?

What do you look like.

6'2", 235 lbs., brown hair, green eyes, white dude and I wear whatever I feel like wearing when I'm on duty.

It's been a while since I've had to deal with juveniles such as your self, but I'm still up for it.

You're just as mature as I am by participating in this pi$$ing match with me.

Too bad you can't seem to direct all this hostility towards your real enemy.

And since you know me so well, who would that be? I spread my hostility out evenly to people I don't like.

I'm done bickering with you here in public. Go ahead and get the last word in if you want. I have nothing more to say to you. If you have anything else to say to ME do it via private message and I'll do the same.

 

[1-tacan-rule]

Okay boys, don't make me strop this car........

Hey Waveoff and Flightbag:

shouldn't one of you guys say something like "oh yeah? well then I'll meet you at the bike rack after school and we'll settle this thing once and for all..."

I mean really, GROW THE FU(K UP !

Why don't you both just stick to the issues. Let's face it, if you were serious about settling this with fists you would't be giving personal descriptions like a couple of biatchhes...you'd PM each other a time a place and get over it.......problem is...... I'll bet everyone else reading this crap, like me, think that when the two of you met, one guy would be a bald, pot-bellied, 5ft 3inch, bifoculed dweeb and the other.....his twin separated at birth.

 

[vixin]

Amen 1-tacan!!They need to grow up.

 

[Flightbag]

Hey 1-tacan-rule:

Good post.I agree with everyting you said.

It gets worse. I did give an accurate discription of myself.

My last tour I confronted every flops pilot I saw, including 2 at CGF on the 11th. None seemed to know who waveoff is.

On another subject, how is 91K going at flops?

Flightbag

 

[Dep676]

On another subject, how is 91K going at flops?

Flightbag

It's not. They are planning on going 135 on the 17th. They aren't even close to having it down. It will be a very interesting day on the 17th. Can you say CHARTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That will because our planes will not have all the stuff updated, printers will not work ETC.