Today's Wallstreet Journal, page B3...Union Strong

[G4dude]

I don't understand that G4? Could you explain it to me? The being fair part? The upgrading of all the FO's. I don't understand how that is fair to the rest of us? Yes, I know you will probably say that happened before the integration, so it is what it is. The company sold you down the river to the union if that's the way you wanna look at it. So again, it is what it is, and here you are.

Just plain truth:

"The 4 piles offered by the Company allow for downgrades so guess who will be the first to feel that".

Semore:
Yes, there would be about a 120 Gulfstream guys downgraded before they get to me. So, I think this would be a pretty good time for the G-people to get on board with the rest of the union pilots.

I've only met 1 G-pilot that I thought was an idiot. She because she was a "fee payer". When I ask her why she did that she said that another Cpt told her too? Not to bright in my opinion. (I wonder what else the Cpt's told her to do on the road? She may have been a good time!)

But, these are the cards we are dealt. Fall in and support the union, fly the contract and make things better. Or, get downgraded (depending on your hire date) because you are so concerned about hurting the EMT's feelings. Your call?

May I also point out that as the largest fractional the other fractionals generally get wage increases based on how our contracts come out.

Fly the contract and above all, don't let the company endanger your life or livelihood.

Semore

I agree with your assertion that our frac competitors will get a raise if we do, but maybe not XOJet, and maybe not as big a raise. Also, our other competitors are the airlines, owners buying their own planes, and charter. I do so enjoy union flacks telling me to blame Santulli for throwing us under the bus. You guys forced him to do that. Thanks a lot. NJI was better in every way than NJA to fly for.

 

[G4dude]

Semore,

You generally seem like a level headed thoughtful person, so I'm surprised by your viewpoint. In this case, it sounds like you actually know why it was fair and the right thing to do. As an outsider, I was pulling for all of the NJI FO's to get an early upgrade. NJASAP wanted to combine so they could take NJI's big airplanes for themselves. Very few from NJI wanted the merger back then, but NJASAP wanted to steal those G seats for themselves. The career expectation for pilots who met the qualifications and accepted positions at NJI was to upgrade into a Gulfstream. Pilots love to screw over other pilots, so NJASAP forced the integration that was not wanted by the NJI pilots, and some are still pissed they didn't get more of the prize for doing so.

You can argue that it worked out well for everyone, and that the NJI pilots are better off today. That might be true, but the NJI pilots wanted no part of the integration because they knew you wanted their seats. I'm glad they got to keep them. In my book, that's fair.

Yep, Semore is a good poster. Beer at the watering hole of both of y'all's choice some time would be fine.

 

[X-rated]

Without the integration, the NJI guys would have been stuck on the Gulfstreams as they get phased out while all Global slots would be going to NJA pilots. So the NJI guys should feel fortunate that they get to keep their jobs as the Gulfstreams go away. As for career expectations, keep in mind that it was NJA pilots operating the BBJs, not NJI. The most important thing is we now have one pilot group flying under one brand - none of the whipsaw BS that we see in other segments of the industry.

I think it's much more likely NJI would have gotten the Globals, but it's a moot point. NJI is gone and their crews got what they got.

 

[X-rated]

It really had nothing to do with "stealing" of seats as you say, but the recognition that the pilot group would be significantly stronger and more prevalent in negotiations with all pilots unionized! NJASAP saw how potentially damaging it could be if we had a non-unionized group that management would be able to pit against those pesky unionized pilots, the term whipsaw comes to mind. I suppose some of the "grassy knollers" might view it as a seat grab though!

I do understand and accept the whipsaw aspect, but if that was the only reason NJA guys wanted the forced integration, why are so many guys bothered about the upgrades? They had no effect on your salary or position except that the the G seats did not open up to the NJA guys. I find you argument at least in part disingenuous.

 

[imacdog]

I think it's much more likely NJI would have gotten the Globals, but it's a moot point. NJI is gone and their crews got what they got.

Contractually prohibited for NJI to have anything but GIV and GV.

 

[tk855]

They had no effect on your salary or position except that the the G seats did not open up to the NJA guys. I find you argument at least in part disingenuous.

Actually they did have an effect, we have G captains junior to NJA fo's which was a result of the upgrades you speak of, myself included. I personally don't get hung up on that aspect as I feel it more important that we only have to contend with a contentious negotiating environment between NJASAP and management rather than that plus a non-union group being pitted against us!

 

[X-rated]

Contractually prohibited for NJI to have anything but GIV and GV.

I stand corrected. Thanks.

 

[X-rated]

Actually they did have an effect, we have G captains junior to NJA fo's which was a result of the upgrades you speak of, myself included. I personally don't get hung up on that aspect as I feel it more important that we only have to contend with a contentious negotiating environment between NJASAP and management rather than that plus a non-union group being pitted against us!

Yes, but they're in the G fleet which was not part of NJA prior to the integration. You had NO chance to upgrade into one of those planes prior to integration so what have you lost? Consider it the price of getting what you wanted. Also, consider the alternative. The NJI FO's would have been deeply screwed if they hadn't been upgraded.

 

[Helmsalee]

Actually, there was an avenue for NJA pilots to transfer to NJI. I know a couple of guys who did it.
Helm

 

[Semore Butts]

Yeah, "X" and I pmed, seems like a "good Joe".

We don't agree on it being fair for the "G" guys to go to the Global.

Even G-4 seems to realize (And boy! He's a hardhead) that the present EMT is trashing our company, really, it's not the union.

The EMT didn't make this company, the pilots did. But, the EMT can certainly ruin it. They don't give a rat %&*k about anybody but themselves.

If any of us are gonna get through this we have to band together. Like the union, hate it, it's our only chance.

Take care, Semore

 

[X-rated]

We don't agree on it being fair for the "G" guys to go to the Global.

Even G-4 seems to realize (And boy! He's a hardhead) that the present EMT is trashing our company, really, it's not the union.

The EMT didn't make this company, the pilots did. But, the EMT can certainly ruin it. They don't give a rat %&*k about anybody but themselves.

If any of us are gonna get through this we have to band together. Like the union, hate it, it's our only chance.

Take care, Semore

Semore, we can certainly agree on the rest.

G-4, I'm not union diehard either, but they are a necessary evil for aviation companies of a certain size. They can be just as corrupt and inept as management, but at the end of the day they are the only hope of countering the urge by some in management to increase profitability on our backs. We do not work in a free market. When you have a seniority system and have a large pay inequality between left and right seats, selling your skills to the next operator becomes problematic. Management knows this and uses it against us. Rules need to be established to define what is expected of us, and management needs to be held to those rules so they cannot put profits above safety. A contract is not necessarily bad for anyone. The downside only stems from greed on both sides of the negotiating table.

 

[pilotyip]

The downside only stems from greed on both sides of the negotiating table.

And there lies the problem. Pursuit of greed by both sides has the potential to destroy something that is a 90% the best job on the country. I see everything from l=hold what we have which seems reasonable, to match DAL and FedEx which seems unreasonable.

Is it as management draws a line further away from the present contract, the union has demand something further way in the opposite direction from the present contract.

Then great part from the union side is if you are not for the burn place down option, you are not part of the brotherhood. From those of us on the outside, NJ is close to a dream job, I say 50% of our pilots have applied at NJ. Hope things work out for everyone.

 

[realityman]

Yip,

You are completely wrong on your comments on who is considered a good union member and who isn't. I know you only have what you read on FI to go from, but you are wrong. Like every group, we have our extremists. And like most extremists, they tend to be the loudest, which is basically what you hear. However, most of our members aren't so far out there.

In fact, we suffer from the problem of not having nearly enough engaged even a little bit in what's going on. Apathy is a big problem for us right now. Quite frankly, the extremists serve a useful purpose because they help balance, at least a little bit, the folks that don't get involved or express any opinion.

As far as what wages we should make, that really hasn't been determined. Most of us who are engaged agree it should be more than what we presently earn. Whether it's FedEx wages or something else hasn't been laid out yet. I'm not sure why FedEx or DAL wages are unreasonable, but no one has declared that's what we'll end up with.

One thing I do know, we have to do better than just maintain what we have. Inflation is reducing our wages every year. The value of the entire payscale has been dropping at the rate of inflation since 2007, which is when our current CBA was signed. To get the buying power we had in 2007 we already need to see a 24-32% increase in the pay scale. And the longer this drags on the more we need just to break even. And if we want even a small "raise" we'll need to get even more than that.

Please keep in mind that the company has an inflation adjustment clause in all our clients' contracts, so they collect more and more every year. But we don't see a dime of that. Hey, that's the contract we signed, but that doesn't make it unreasonable to fix it in the next contract.

I'll probably never convince you of anything. One man's greed is another man's reasonable request. All I know for certain is that the cost of living goes up like clockwork every year, and I expect to be compensated for it on a level close to or equal to what the top tier in this industry (that of aviation) makes. And I don't think it'll destroy the company to do so.

 

[X-rated]

To get the buying power we had in 2007 we already need to see a 24-32% increase in the pay scale.

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

 

[G4dude]

Semore, we can certainly agree on the rest.

G-4, I'm not union diehard either, but they are a necessary evil for aviation companies of a certain size. They can be just as corrupt and inept as management, but at the end of the day they are the only hope of countering the urge by some in management to increase profitability on our backs. We do not work in a free market. When you have a seniority system and have a large pay inequality between left and right seats, selling your skills to the next operator becomes problematic. Management knows this and uses it against us. Rules need to be established to define what is expected of us, and management needs to be held to those rules so they cannot put profits above safety. A contract is not necessarily bad for anyone. The downside only stems from greed on both sides of the negotiating table.

I find hard headedness an excellent substitute for intelligence.

 

[t-bone]

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

They must be using the new math...common core?

 

[X-rated]

I find hard headedness an excellent substitute for intelligence.

Hell, you've got me beat; I'm not even smart enough to find a substitute.

 

[realityman]

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

X-Rated,

Thanks for that. I didn't know that website was there. According to that site, the average inflation has been about 2%/year since 2007.

I derived my numbers from simply researching the cost increases of a number of common items everyone buys, such as milk, eggs, oranges, etc...

The results I got were increases anywhere from 2.5% to 4.1%. Admittedly, I don't know how many of those things you'd have to research to get an accurate idea of real inflation. I only looked at a small handful, maybe 5 or 6. But my unscientific results pointed me towards an inflation rate average of just over 3%, so I stand by my assertion that we'd need AT LEAST a 24% increase in wages just to earn the same buying power as we had in 2007. And if we wanted only a 10% "raise" then we'd need to achieve a 34% increase in wages. That's a sizable number, and personally I think we should be making an even larger raise.

While it may seem daunting, I think we can do it. It's just going to be difficult. But few things that are worthwhile are easy.

Sorry T-bone, common core was after my time. But I'm pretty good with an abacus and my fingers.