Today's Wallstreet Journal, page B3...Union Strong

[JustPlaneTruth]

right B scale, regional airlines instead of mainline flying, saple to the bottom of the list, etc were all management ideas

Additionally, you say "unions" with the implication being all unions as opposed to some, a few, once in history, etc. None of what you speak of are in play with NJASAP since there are no regionals, no b scales and NJI was not stapled.

 

[JustPlaneTruth]

right B scale, regional airlines instead of mainline flying, saple to the bottom of the list, etc were all management ideas

In my best Columbo impression, just one more thing. Unions follow the will of the membership through surveys. In the cases you cite, the "evil union" would have to gone against the will of the membership for some other motivation and got it to pass against the will of a large portion of the membership. If all the things you cite were the will of the membership and voted in by them then onus is on the the members and not the body leading the union at the time.

 

[G4dude]

Thats not the end of what Smith says (check out Book 1 Chapter 10) and I got some FA Hayek and Henry Hazlitt for you too.

IMO the Unions are part of capitalism. We can't individually negotiate with management.

I worked non union and can attest to what Downwind posted. People are flying tired, on broken airplanes and low pay. Even Santulli said in aviation you want union pilots who can't be pressured.

I'll see your Hazlitt and Hayek, and raise you Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell.

 

[gunfyter]

I'll see your Hazlitt and Hayek, and raise you Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell.

Love them. Know where you are coming from...

But don't forget to look for "that which is not seen". In the arguments against unions what is not seen is that managements unite/collude to keep wages lower than market.

A Union Buster Confesses:

http://www.amazon.com/Union-Buster-.../ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

 

[ghostrider64]

Remember unions take care of the upper 51% of its members and those members will vote to preserve their position even if it means screwing the 49%

Need I remind you that very junior pilots at NJA are flying G's, solely because the union wanted to be FAIR! Those pilots will never be in the top 51%, nor will they ever live in fear of having their wages cut, to reflect their true seniority.

 

[G4dude]

Need I remind you that very junior pilots at NJA are flying G's, solely because the union wanted to be FAIR! Those pilots will never be in the top 51%, nor will they ever live in fear of having their wages cut, to reflect their true seniority.

I think it was because Santulli wanted to be fair, and dug in his heels.

 

[JustPlaneTruth]

?... Those pilots will never be in the top 51%, nor will they ever live in fear of having their wages cut, to reflect their true seniority.

Only if the Company proposal is blocked. The 4 piles offered by the Company allow for downgrades so guess who will be the first to feel that. Factor in the current pay imbalance between some NJI and all of NJA and big change could be in order.

 

[ghostrider64]

I think it was because Santulli wanted to be fair, and dug in his heels.

Of course you overlook WHO voted you in... But that's ok, believe what you want, then enjoy the benefits gained by those who do the real heavy lifting, FOR YOU, ingrate...

Hell we saved you thousands, by negotiating benefits that can't be changed, under the four pillars you'd be paying for healthcare an amount that would be more than your dues....

 

[Helmsalee]

" right B scale, regional airlines instead of mainline flying, saple to the bottom of the list, etc were all management ideas "

Yip, they are all management ideas. Except staple which, to my knowledge, has not happened.
Helm

 

[pilotyip]

" right B scale, regional airlines instead of mainline flying, saple to the bottom of the list, etc were all management ideas "Helm

That may be? but it was accepted by 51% + to ensure as much of seniority perks were preserved. am I wrong?