To Usair/AWA Pilots

[SaturnPilot]

If your so sure that USAPA can't vacate the award, what do you have to worry about??

Your pathetic wages and contract keeping down the rest of the industry for even longer...

 

[SaturnPilot]

Personally I don't see the ROI from alpa that I feel it should be. Aeromedical??? My AME did more work and was quicker than the advice, or what ALPA said. Lobbying???? Is ALPA lobbying really effective?? Or do they just claim victory when one an issue falls the way towards ALPA's stated opinion??? I really didn't see much effect ALPA had on the pension debacle, or getting things changed, Such as the benefit from PBGC to be adjusted for the mandatory retirement age of 60 against 65. Oh, ALPA's answer was to lift retirement age.
How long has ALPA been working on the one pass, or security bypass issue for us???

luckily you won't have to worry about ANY of these issues with USAPA, since those benefits won't exist!

 

[Crzipilot]

You fly an rj and you talk about pathetic wages. I guess you started where ever you are paying 80k a year?? Ya.

the benefits are already there....your talking S**** you don't know.

And uhmmm...look at the pay rates, the west side isn't higher on all equipment if I remember. Whereas your RJ contract is at the highest it's ever been, and the majors are at their lowest they have ever been. Want to guess who's going to go up and who is going to go down???

 

[PCL_128]

He doesn't fly an RJ anymore. Not everyone updates their profiles with every flight hour or type rating they get.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

PHXFLYR -

OK, so you didn't like what I said or something, but can you answer the questions I asked? Specifically:

Didn't ALPA narrowly escape decertification at AWA just a few years ago? What occurred to make you guys almost 100% ALPA supporters?

If the Nicolau wasn't such a huge windfall to you all, then what mighty impressive act did ALPA perform for you all that changed so many minds so quickly?

Also, maybe you can verify soulfly's "facts."

Thanks.

BC

I can answer your question, no it was never even close!! AWAPA was no doubt very upset with ALPA but instead of pushing a very bad and decisive issue unlike the theives of the east, the AWAPA top folks became ALPA reps and MEC chairman!!!

Now you need to understand and understand well! AWA pilots for the most part have always been easy going passive types. Now the unity to destroy usapa at all costs up to and including this company going out of business it'self is very real. I have never seen this group like this and I for one am proud of this display on our parts. Hear and understand my man usapa will spell the end for USAirways and you can bank on that...

WD

 

[Deadalus]

Well if you guys are so sure that the arbitration stays no matter who the CBA is, and what you want is a contract ASAP. Well even with ALPA that won't occur. You see many on the east believe that the arbitration won't stay. Until that is proven wrong they will vote down ANY contract ALPA comes up with. So without both sides voting in a TA, there won't be any combined contract, Unless of course ALPA pulls a quick one and finds a loop hole to get one forced on the east.

In the meantime, if you let the events play out, the east side satisfy themselves (as all on the west have said that Nick ain't going anywhere) that they've exhausted every legal means available to them. After such has happened a contract will come forward. If USAPA is the CBA, it won't require to seperate votes, but one collective vote.
So sit back, let the vote tally come in, and move on from there.

If your so sure that USAPA can't vacate the award, what do you have to worry about??

Who's money do you think USAPA is going to use to try and overturn arbitration that can't be overturned. That's right Einstein, ours. I don't know about you but I'm tired of making lawyers and CEOs richer. Aren't you?

 

[Crzipilot]

and your doing what with ALPA???

 

[becket]

Who's money do you think USAPA is going to use to try and overturn arbitration that can't be overturned. That's right Einstein, ours. I don't know about you but I'm tired of making lawyers and CEOs richer. Aren't you?

If you're an America West Pilot, you're the only one who plans on paying USAPA a dime.

 

[SaturnPilot]

You fly an rj and you talk about pathetic wages. I guess you started where ever you are paying 80k a year?? Ya.

if you want to justify your wages by comparing them to rjs, then be my guest. My point was that you've already passed up at least one large chance to improve your working conditions and pay, but instead have chosen to go the USAPA route...a route that promises the same pay and working conditions for a very long time. A route that delays any pattern bargaining for the rest of us.

All of this talk about getting rid of ALPA because of it's problems is just a front to hide the real motivation...to try to overturn Nic. Life without ALPA around is not going to be different for you at Airways. You will still have Airways pilots making decisions for you, just like you do now.

I'm going to copy and paste some questions that Rez asked regarding USAPA. I haven't seen anybody answer them yet, so if USAPA is so much better, please answer the following:

The opportunity is ripe for management to rid thier company of any pilot representation. What is USAPA's plan to ensure that USAIRways management does not drain USAPA finances and BK the pilots?

What will the dues rate be at USAPA?

It is common for in house unions to have assessments? What is USAPA's policy on assessments?

Will USAPA purchase services from ALPA as does the IPA, NPA, APA and SWAPA as well as many international pilot groups?

What is USAPA's plan for CapHill representation? Will they join CAPA? The only effective pilot group on CapHill is ALPA. Do USAPA pilots accept silence on major issues such as BK reform, pension reform, RLA reform, FFDO legislation, security/airport access, flight time/duty time, fatigue, NAS modernization, NTSB accident/incident investigation, FAA reauthorization bills, etc...

What is USAPA's plan for international issues such as MPL licenses, cabatoge, open skies, etc.. Will USAPA be silent on these issues that will effect USAPA pilots as does APA pilots? USAPA pilots will be forced thru their choice to be silent, like the APA pilots, as ALPA speaks for them.

There is only two organizations that have observer status at ICAO. ALPA is one of them. Are the USAPA pilots ready to forgoe thier voice on international issues, policy and law? Are USAPA pilots international pilots?

What is USAPA's plan to assist and recover a USAPA pilot who has been charged criminally overseas for doing his/her job to the best of his ability? ALPA has a go-plan and network to get ALPA pilots back to the USA within 72 hours of incident. What is USAPA's plan?

 

[Crzipilot]

Well no, I wasn't exactly comparing wages.....so let me help you a bit. I was simply stating that RJ wages are higher and at their highest point, whereas the majors are at their lowest levels. contracts such as America West and jet blue, along with the scope give aways, and the plentiful amount of pilots to fly rj's, were a few blocks to the puzzle of the major's pay scales getting cut down.

Your answers : don't have all of them, but you can check the USAPA web board for most of them.

1.95% initially, ratchet down after a period of time.

USAPA already has loss of license setup, and disability programs, and I believe just got an offer for some life insurance coverage or something. but yes, basically all those benefits ALPA has, so does USAPA it seems.

they have mentioned the ability to join in with CAPA. I can see ALPA has reallllly done alot of work and success getting those duty time fatigue issues worked out. Great work on that security bypass issue guys... Pension work has been just GRAND, as well as lots of movement over the years on that RLA, when was the last amendment to that????


Not sure of the international issues, but it sure as hell can't be any worse than alpa's responses.

Charged criminally overseas, it's been said they have a support network in place or soon to be in place.


Oh yeah, and pattern based bargaining, can't say I've been a big fan of such. ALPA definately likes it. and well while it may have resulted in contracts leap frogging each other, eventually the leap froging became to high, and tumbled twice as low as they ever got high. I'm sure some outside the box thinking on that aspect might be helpful

 

[BeCareful!]

Now you need to understand and understand well! AWA pilots for the most part have always been easy going passive types.
WD

Right, yeah, I understand. So easy going and passive they SCABBED in 1989 below the equator!

I have never seen this group like this and I for one am proud of this display on our parts.WD

Yes, I hear you guys were very open minded and professional at the PHX roadshow. You must be proud, but I, for one, think a pilot group with 27 scabs should think twice before using the term improperly. Shameful.

For what it's worth, I think voting for different representation is very pro union. You guys just don't see it this way because you want super seniority and 1000 furlough protection numbers.

Hear and understand my man usapa will spell the end for USAirways and you can bank on that...WD

Wiskyhead, the fact that you think that scares me or anyone else is almost as funny as you claiming to take the high road on that other thread. You have no idea who you're dealing with, and any pilot who so strongly supports such an obviously corrupt, inept, and ineffective POS as ALPA needs a clue.

You'll see a contract much sooner with USAPA, trust me. ALPA has no way of fixing what is wrong. I know you'll never pay dues, so you won't get to vote on it, but you can thank us later.

 

[Turtle21]

I've met him at the multitude of Herndon brainwashing sessions I've attended.....He is an ALPA cheerleader like you...

LOL! Every barrel of apples has one.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Right, yeah, I understand. So easy going and passive they SCABBED in 1989 below the equator!

That's the best you can do?? You resort to Ansett, something that I'm sure you know nothing about!! Did you know the Ansett pilot walked off the job? Did you know AWA and Ansett were in bed with one another?? Did you know that if a group of pilots quit it's not strike work??? Do you know anything beyond what someone else fed you???? You can learn a lot from that story because the same is going to happen to you. those pilots walked off the job and within weeks Ansett was gone. LEARN and LEARN WELL. Your fate will be very simular...



Yes, I hear you guys were very open minded and professional at the PHX roadshow. You must be proud, but I, for one, think a pilot group with 27 scabs should think twice before using the term improperly. Shameful.

Again you know not what you speak of I would suggest that you do some research into this subject first before you make comments that make you look stupid, just a word to the wise!!

For what it's worth, I think voting for different representation is very pro union. You guys just don't see it this way because you want super seniority and 1000 furlough protection numbers.

No Jr, what we want is what WE read and what WE sat thru and what WE know of the case. You had no interest in the FACTS only your emotion!! There was no windfall for the west in fact we all lost numbers but unlike you we don't cry and get all publically emotional. We deal with it and move on!! The west got a windfall? Please GMAFB!!! My career is in a holding pattern so that you can still collect a pay check! So really who got the windfall there buddy??



Wiskyhead, the fact that you think that scares me or anyone else is almost as funny as you claiming to take the high road on that other thread. You have no idea who you're dealing with, and any pilot who so strongly supports such an obviously corrupt, inept, and ineffective POS as ALPA needs a clue.

Name calling, very typically of you east folks and yes we have been on the high road where you are concerned. We have followed the rules, you haven't we have followed the transition agreement have you??? I am part of that system as I am a sitting ALPA rep a democracy not the self appointing dictatorship that usapa is. You have no plan other that the staple 1900 pilots to the bottom of the list and you think that that's gonna fly with us?? The west not the east has the largest base in all of usair but you get to dictate to us no democracy just usapa rule and that's gonna fly?? What world is it you live in??

Do you have the slightest idea what's happening here or is it just more of the same clouded emotion that's been driving you all along?? If usapa were to gain a win what do you really think is going to happen?? Is it you pipe dream that the west pilots will just fall in line and take it up the tail end??????? Do you really think and I mean really think that Parker is just going to say OK usapa it's DOH now??? I refuse to believe that you are really that stupid although I shouldn't be because history has shown that you are!!!

You'll see a contract much sooner with USAPA, trust me. ALPA has no way of fixing what is wrong. I know you'll never pay dues, so you won't get to vote on it, but you can thank us later.

I'm laughing in my shoes, contract from usapa for who?? You really think that usapa will run a cram down on us and that you will still be employed by usair 90 days later?????? Man you and your brothers really are clueless. Hey man let me give you a piece of advice, start looking for another job...

WD.

 

[Crzipilot]

Hmmm...with the amount of money the west side looses, maybe it will turn to positive cash flow having their airplanes not flying (with the price of gas these days)

 

[Boeing747Driver]

Hmmm...with the amount of money the west side looses, maybe it will turn to positive cash flow having their airplanes not flying (with the price of gas these days)

Who was loosing billions after 9-11????

AWA or AAA?????