To Strike or Not to Strike at ASA

[AVoiceOfReason]

If you can't support your MEC, what is the alternative? Management is looking to divide and conquer. It worked at Comair.

I support the MEC, but I don't have much faith in ALPA. We've got some hardworking guys here, but ALPA on a national level seems to be a waste of money.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Earnings reports mean nothing in the regional industry. A regional airline will earn profits right up until the day that all flying ceases dramatically when they lose their mainline contract.

I'm a yes vote, but I think that a much better strategy that striking is to delay, especially since they are now talking concessions.

BINGO! I like the way you think blueridge. Any insight from a former blueridger is welcome - they've been down this road before.

 

[HoserASA]

I'm a yes vote, but I think that a much better strategy that striking is to delay, especially since they are now talking concessions.


I agree with that in a way. IF all the company wants are concessions, and they won't budge off that, then status quo would be the better option. Plus, if these negotiations drag on, what will the brain trust out in SLC think of Brian's management team? There is more pressure on Brian & Team than the MEC!

As always, I don't have any answers, and of course time will tell. But, I do support Bob Arnold and John Rice's negtiation team as they have pilot's interests more in mind than Brian's Team! You may have a different opinion about Bob and that's your right. But, the PATCO strike has nothing to do with Bob as the ASA MEC Chairman. Two entirely different things.

Hoser

 

[HoserASA]

I'm not going to use names, and I'm not going to launch into personal attacks. BOTH sides have some valid points and I don't understand the need to personally attack anyone.

I have been present in the crew lounge when one of our MEC members has launched into BL and SH in what can only be described as very unprofessionable. If anything, it makes us look bad. This individual almost seems like they want a strike.

Listen Scott, Brian, whoever you are. Just go ahead and say it was Bob Arnold. Scott was lying in there and Bob confronted him in order to set the record straight. What's wrong with that? It may make us look 'bad' to you, management, but the pilot's there that witnessed it think more of Bob now! Except for you, Voice , Scott, Brian, Danny, no, it couldn't be Danny. He never could write like that. Sorry Danny!

Hoser

 

[HoserASA]

Hoser, can you tell me what we are asking for exactly. Tell me how my QOL will improve if I vote yes to strike. Specifics please.

Well Brian, as management you don't get to vote for a strike. And, if the pilots vote for a strike, and they will, your quality of life won't improve. You'll be on SLC's crap list, and may be replaced if they are disappointed in you not whipping those ASA boys and girls into submission. How's that?

Hoser

 

[HoserASA]

I've known BA for a long time. He was a PATCO leader. In fact, I believe he went to jail for a brief time during the strike. Talk to the PATCO guys that haven't retired, they can fill you in.

Listen Brian, Scott, Bob, or is this JB again under another name? So what if Bob was a PATCO leader? At least he's a leader! And he's the leader of the ASA pilots, and he and the MEC speak for us!

You guys crack me up playing this PATCO card. Maybe you can find out that he coached his daughter's softball team next and argued with the umpire!!! Ohh, what a controvery that would be in the ASA pilot's eyes!

Hoser

 

[Blucher]

"...what can only be described as very unprofessionable."-AVoiceOfReason

Dear AVoiceOfReason,

With all due respect, you do really give yourself away as working at the GO when you write like this. Is that what Georgia Tech teaches in their English classes? "Unprofessionable?" Must be nice to not have to get drug tested, eh?

-Blucher

PS-I vote YES!

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Listen Scott, Brian, whoever you are. Just go ahead and say it was Bob Arnold. Scott was lying in there and Bob confronted him in order to set the record straight. What's wrong with that? It may make us look 'bad' to you, management, but the pilot's there that witnessed it think more of Bob now! Except for you, Voice , Scott, Brian, Danny, no, it couldn't be Danny. He never could write like that. Sorry Danny!

Hoser

No Hoser, it wasn't Bob. Sorry, but I'm not too concerned with Bob. He is retiring soon. The member of the MEC that I am talking about is very junior. Bob actually handles himself much better than this MEC member does.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Well Brian, as management you don't get to vote for a strike. And, if the pilots vote for a strike, and they will, your quality of life won't improve. You'll be on SLC's crap list, and may be replaced if they are disappointed in you not whipping those ASA boys and girls into submission. How's that?

Hoser

Brian doesn't get a vote, but I do. I am leaning towards a no vote. I don't like the way this is headed.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Listen Brian, Scott, Bob, or is this JB again under another name? So what if Bob was a PATCO leader? At least he's a leader! And he's the leader of the ASA pilots, and he and the MEC speak for us!

You guys crack me up playing this PATCO card. Maybe you can find out that he coached his daughter's softball team next and argued with the umpire!!! Ohh, what a controvery that would be in the ASA pilot's eyes!

Hoser

I only brought it up because you tried to deny BA's part in the PATCO strike. He was a leader in the PATCO strike. Now on to more important issues.

How do you see this playing out Hoser?

 

[79%N1]

No Hoser, it wasn't Bob. Sorry, but I'm not too concerned with Bob. He is retiring soon. The member of the MEC that I am talking about is very junior. Bob actually handles himself much better than this MEC member does.

WF??? Not too sure about him! A little gung ho for me!

 

[HoserASA]

I only brought it up because you tried to deny BA's part in the PATCO strike. He was a leader in the PATCO strike. Now on to more important issues.

How do you see this playing out Hoser?

WTF over! Show me where I tried to deny this! I believe that Bob's part, and whatever he did, at PATCO was irrelevent to his position now as MEC Chairman.

Hoser

 

[HoserASA]

No Hoser, it wasn't Bob. Sorry, but I'm not too concerned with Bob. He is retiring soon. The member of the MEC that I am talking about is very junior. Bob actually handles himself much better than this MEC member does.

Ahh, you must mean the ATL 112 LEC Capt Newie then? Why are you so hestitant to mention his name? I like my ALPA leaders confronting management who spin and tell lies.

Hoser

 

[be-400xpdriver]

Let's see if they still have jobs, or how the strike works out for them. Too early to use this as a reason to vote yes. Aren't the NWA mechanics still on strike? I hear many of them are crossing back over to go back to work.

Seems like the World strike worked out for them!! Maybe you can use their story as a little courage to strike. Or you can go along and keep kissing the Company's A$# so that you can fly a nice shinny jet!!

 

[Plug]

Voice,

I think the pilots appreciate Bob going in their and firing off some tough questions and harsh criticism, it seems Scott needs that. Scott has some answering to do as some of his comments, well, make me go "hmmmm." Like "I can't honor the current agreement, but I am going to honor the next agreement 100%." Or, not word for word, "Line pilots should be the bigger of the two when it come to Asst. Chief Pilots." This last one goes back to the underwear in the sink, you remember that right Fred?

Don't get me wrong, Scott is a nice guy but he has lied on several occasions and has been caught. Remember the BTR hotel mess? He wanted crews to share rooms and claimed the EGL and XJT were doing the same. The MEC called those MECs and they not only said "no" but "Hell No!" I don't trust Scott or anyone on this management team as they are in it for themselves.

Joe Merchant,

If you want to compete then go right ahead, but it'll be you and the rest of your washed up has-beens, which is quite the minority here in candlerland. Airline managements have strayed from competing for the passenger and their business, though they say they care about PAX. No our management team has done nothing about the lost bag stuff, they have not fixed the BIG problems on the ramp, and they don't care that our gate agents are some of the most unprofessional folks out there. No when management says compete they mean for airframes and business, compete against other carriers. I say by all means compete but take care of the $hit you have now. You go ahead and buy in to this crap and point the big old finger at ALPA, of which ALPA Nat'l has dropped the ball, but don't expect the rest of us non-RJDCers to sit here and accept.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Ahh, you must mean the ATL 112 LEC Capt Newie then? Why are you so hestitant to mention his name? I like my ALPA leaders confronting management who spin and tell lies.

Hoser

Actually, I'm talking about the FO rep. Confronting management is fine, I just don't like it when ALPA "spins and tells lies". If you don't believe that BOTH sides do this, then you are naive.

I like Newie fine.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Voice,

I think the pilots appreciate Bob going in their and firing off some tough questions and harsh criticism, it seems Scott needs that. Scott has some answering to do as some of his comments, well, make me go "hmmmm." Like "I can't honor the current agreement, but I am going to honor the next agreement 100%." Or, not word for word, "Line pilots should be the bigger of the two when it come to Asst. Chief Pilots." This last one goes back to the underwear in the sink, you remember that right Fred?

Don't get me wrong, Scott is a nice guy but he has lied on several occasions and has been caught. Remember the BTR hotel mess? He wanted crews to share rooms and claimed the EGL and XJT were doing the same. The MEC called those MECs and they not only said "no" but "Hell No!" I don't trust Scott or anyone on this management team as they are in it for themselves.

I appreciate anyone who fires off tough questions at BOTH sides. When the company screws up, hold their feet to the fire. When ALPA screws up, hold their feet to the fire also. Neither side is perfect, and both sides have been playing games with these negotiations.

As far as SH and this new management team, I have been here a long time and they are far better than what we used to have here. Tough questions are fine, chest-thumping union rhetoric not so much.

 

[atrdriver]

As far as SH and this new management team, I have been here a long time and they are far better than what we used to have here. Tough questions are fine, chest-thumping union rhetoric not so much.

If they were far better then what we had before they would have stopped violating our current contract when they arrived. They didn't. If they were far better then what we had before they would have started to treat the pilots as professionals instead of as children. They didn't. As far as I am concerned, their actions speak far louder then their words do.

 

[Texx]

Actually, I'm talking about the FO rep. Confronting management is fine, I just don't like it when ALPA "spins and tells lies". If you don't believe that BOTH sides do this, then you are naive.

So what was it that WF said that was a lie? If you do not like the conversation then just walk away.

 

[Texx]

I appreciate anyone who fires off tough questions at BOTH sides. When the company screws up, hold their feet to the fire. When ALPA screws up, hold their feet to the fire also. Neither side is perfect, and both sides have been playing games with these negotiations.

As far as SH and this new management team, I have been here a long time and they are far better than what we used to have here. Tough questions are fine, chest-thumping union rhetoric not so much.

You beat your chest about "holding feet to the fire" but I see a person supporting the company more than his fellow pilots that are required to fly more than 3 cdos in a row because a management pilot lied. I see a pilot that is silent when the company violates our agreement that we have been working under since 1998.

You brag about being here a long time well you should know the "chest thumping" has been around a long time too. I guess it's ok in your book when the company does it, like BL in his memo. Just how long have you been at ASA?

 

[Plug]

I appreciate anyone who fires off tough questions at BOTH sides. When the company screws up, hold their feet to the fire. When ALPA screws up, hold their feet to the fire also. Neither side is perfect, and both sides have been playing games with these negotiations.

As far as SH and this new management team, I have been here a long time and they are far better than what we used to have here. Tough questions are fine, chest-thumping union rhetoric not so much.

Voice,

Right now there is a battle to provide information to the pilot group by both ALPA and ASA. The one who speaks louder and with more authority is the one most will listen to. I agree that the "new management" is far better than the old, but you have to question some of the actions and comments of SH. I have lost a lot of faith in him because of some of the things he has said, and I am not taking ALPA's word for it because I have heard him say these things. No doubt, SH is a nice guy, but he can't be trusted, much like ND. CT (not Thibideau) is so far a pretty good manager to work with. I think the association genuinely respects him.

The hard questions are asked and the chest thumping continues because this pilot group is fed up with a lot of what the company is doing. Some one mentioned the 3 CDO's mess, how about all the pay mis-haps, the crapiest schedules in the industry, and the list goes on. A lot of this stuff will be taken care of in the next contract and the company continues to stall. A strong majority of this pilot group is fed up. You have been here a long time and probably occupy one of those offices in the crew lounge, if so then you don't fly the line on a daily basis like the rest of us. You don't deal with the BS from the gate or the departure coordinator (if they're around), you don't deal with the rampers that could care less, you do however here about it from us line pilots. Throw all this on top of the company BS and you have one unhappy group. We are told to fill out RIFs to change things, they don't even respond to mine anymore. To say the least this pilot group is fed up.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well, just got off the phone with one of these guys and read him of your PATCO post. He says you are crazy as hell and 'dont know what the fu@k you are talking about"

I have spoken with 2 former PATCO guys about this and they both confirm that BA led them to believe things would be OK if they struck. History will confirm he was wrong. Blind faith can be a very dangerous thing.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Ok, so you should be the first one in line to support the MEC in stopping the race to the cesspool here at ASA right? Or when would you like to start trying to stop it? ALPA is what we all make of it and some of it is self inflicted as you say.

Ah hell with it, you're right Joen roll over and play dead, you wont get eaten.

The ASA MEC cannot "stop the race to the cesspool". No single regional MEC can stop it by themselves. The regionals are simply vendors that bid on flying for the "major brands". Those major brands are shopping for cheaper providers of this lift. I can respect you if you are not happy about this, but it is the denial that confounds me.

If you really want to stop the reversal of pattern bargaining, you will have to stop the "fee for departure" bidding. If you can't do that, then you can count on the status quo continuing whether you like or not, or whether you participate or not. There are currently two mainline pilot groups that are under-bidding our current 70 seat rates in order to "capture" this flying. One mainline group has already agreed to fly the 70 seater for $56 per hour in the left seat. Your $400,000 per year ALPA president has signed and will continue to sign these agreements that undercut our current rate.

I understand your frustration, however ALPA has slowly pi$$ed away it's leverage and in doing so has put all of us in a bad situation. Solving it will have nothing to do with this contract.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Was BA in charge of PATCO at the time? I have talked with a couple of guys who are now working at NFCT's and they most certainly indicated that their leadership at the time was way off base. They were led to believe that they could strike regardless of the Federal Regulations forbidding a government employee from striking. It doesn't hurt to pay close attention to what is going on. Stay informed!

Tim, he wasn't "in charge of PATCO", but he was a PATCO leader and did indicate to controllers that things would be OK if they authorized a strike. Pay close attention to everything. Listen to both sides and make an informed decision on your own. Don't let anyone, me included, tell what is right. I know unions are big on thinking for yourselves, but that is exactly what you need to do.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe Merchant,

If you want to compete then go right ahead, but it'll be you and the rest of your washed up has-beens, which is quite the minority here in candlerland. Airline managements have strayed from competing for the passenger and their business, though they say they care about PAX. No our management team has done nothing about the lost bag stuff, they have not fixed the BIG problems on the ramp, and they don't care that our gate agents are some of the most unprofessional folks out there. No when management says compete they mean for airframes and business, compete against other carriers. I say by all means compete but take care of the $hit you have now. You go ahead and buy in to this crap and point the big old finger at ALPA, of which ALPA Nat'l has dropped the ball, but don't expect the rest of us non-RJDCers to sit here and accept.

I don't WANT to compete. I believe that it is the new reality due to some extremely poor long range planning by ALPA and APA. You yourself seem to realize that ALPA dropped the ball on this, yet you seem to believe that little old ASA can fix it. Tell me, if ALPA national can't fix it, how can one of the independant contractor carriers in a fee for departure portfolio fix it?

As far as your operational concerns go, I agree that we still have many. I see them every day myself. That being said I believe,
1. These issues will not be solved by either a new contract, nor a strike vote, nor a strike.
2. Many of these issues are what I call "Atlanta problems". If you notice Air Tran also had very bad on time numbers. ASA CVG numbers and SLC numbers are better.
3. I have seen many operational improvements here over the years, and I believe we are very lucky to be owned by Skywest. I would rather be owned by Skywest than either Delta or Mesa. I also believe we have the best Flt. Ops. leadership we have ever had here. To say things have not changed for the better is either ignorant, or a blatant attempt to fire people up.