To all the Fracs

[Ragtime67]

Sounds like I struck a nerve. I think that Fly Fly Fly has made my point for me though. Your driving Citations and Falcons and I'm driving props and still cashing a bigger paycheck with better benifits. I have thought about tossing my hat into the NETJETS ring,but I'm smart enough to know what a pilot is worth in todays market,and its attitudes like your's that is driving it down. I hope you get the big payday,because it will have a ripple effect in the entire industry.Catyaak made a valid point,you are dealing with different people than the airlines,and management is aware of this fact.But what gets me,is they do a $600 million hand shake with Raytheon,and I'm sure its somthing close to that with Citation, plus their deals with Boeing,Desault,and Gulfstream,and yet they don't want to give you the $.If you think about what I'm saying,you'll realise I'm right.If you accept a meager pay raise and give up benifits ( like gateway for new hires ) Then everyone else in the industry will look at this, and pilot pay and benifits will go down. Maybe not right away,but over the course of time. Maybe walking is not a viable option,but the threat is. You are dealing directly with management,and only indirectly with owners. They don't care what you are paid,as long as their airplane and box lunch is on time. Tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, then educate me,nicely please.

 

[Brett Hull]

Sounds like I struck a nerve. I think that Fly Fly Fly has made my point for me though. Your driving Citations and Falcons and I'm driving props and still cashing a bigger paycheck with better benifits. I have thought about tossing my hat into the NETJETS ring,but I'm smart enough to know what a pilot is worth in todays market,and its attitudes like your's that is driving it down. I hope you get the big payday,because it will have a ripple effect in the entire industry.

While his grammar and spelling may be poor, his thoughts are right on the money (pun definitely intended).

It boggles my mind to hear you guys justify getting paid such $hity wages. But I guess the low pay's o.k. because you get to fly a jet, right?

Guess what folks, this is a job, not a hobby. Some of us would like to make decent money at this. You're not helping.

 

[Majik]

Guess what folks, this is a job, not a hobby. Some of us would like to make decent money at this. You're not helping.

We have held out for 3 phuking years and I hope we will hold out until we get a salary we will be happy with or are released to strike. We cannot do a thing until the federal mediator releases us, except vote no. All of the other fractional pilots are sitting on the sidelines, waiting for us to better their lot in life.

So, Brett Hull, you want to make decent money at this. What exactly are you doing to help the cause?

 

[Brett Hull]

Uhhh....Not taking jobs with substandard pay.

 

[Majik]

Uhhh....Not taking jobs with substandard pay.

So where do you work Brett Hull? You say you would like to make descent money at this? You may pat yourself on the back because you personally have not taken a job with substandard pay, but it's disingenious for you to criticize the NJA pilots that are trying to raise the bar.

I'm guessing the last 1200 pilots hired came here because they wanted to change that substandard pay and think we have a dang good chance to do that. We've been working for over 3 years to accomplish that goal. This is a long process due mainly to the restrictions of the RLA, and there is no getting around it. I think it would definitely be a very small minority of pilots here that would attempt to justify the current pay. Everyone to a person would agree that we are severely underpaid, but we are actively trying to do something about that.


People (Ragtime 67 and others) may criticize our union but what's the alternative? If we weren't unionized, if we were not making this effort, then nothing would happen. What are the other fractional pilots doing to better this industry's wages? Nothing. They are hanging on by their fingernails and hoping we get something great so that maybe it will trickle down to their companies. If we walked out the door today there would be a line of guys a mile long that would take our place. If you really wanted things to be better I think you would offer encouragement, rather than sniping from the sidelines. Regardless, we're going to keep trying to either get an offer we can be happy with or get to the point where the mediator will release us for self-help.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Majik, very well put (for a VII driver).....I think you really painted the true picture as to why so many of us are at NetJets. We are the industry leader, paving into uncharted territory. Its not easy because we're the first to do it. Other fractionals will be looking towards us....and they already are.

This is our big chance to write aviation history...I hope our MEC can bring it home. Just have to keep the faith and remember that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

 

[niteflyr]

Finally

I have refrained from posting amidst all the frac bashing going on because I didn't want to be told I was drinking the kool aid or just happy to fly jets. I have flown many jets and that is irrelevant, and I have not drank any kool aid. You guys have summed up why I went to NJA also, I saw it as a new type of aviation business with a lot of potential and I wanted to be a part of it. I was tired of all the other places I had worked that have been in business for years but still don't know how to run a successful business in aviation, all the big guys are stumbling and they were before 9/11 . I too am hopeful the MEC will make this into the job it can be, but it is going to take some time and some battles yet to come. The company is holding tight onto their wallet and is no where near what they need to give.

 

[kingtut]

The company does not need to give anything with guys lined up around the block to interview. THAT's the problem. There ain't not shortage of guys and gals the want to come to NJA will to work for the current pay.

Only gonna get worse. The majors are gonna dump a bunch more.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Also consider how long it takes for them to actually get someone from first day of indoc to flying the line......this place is not known for its efficiency in getting pilots "line ready".

They are short crews right now due to the number of people moving into the Excels, 400xp's and Sovereigns. Scheduling can barely cover what they've got and they don't want to sell off anymore trips then they have to.
If the MEC is going to play its hand, tney are going to have to do it within the next few months.......75K for a 5 year captain ain't gonna cut it!!!!!! I think we'll see something in the line of 95K to 105K for a 5 year guy plus some retro, not to mention retiremnt and other goodies.

 

[NJAowner]

Owner Termination of Contracts

I have written about this before. Those of you who have seen (or signed) actual NJA owners contracts know that the owners can not (repeat can not) just get out of their contracts if there is a strike. There may be (or will be) issues with NJA, but there is no absolute out for the owners.

Plus, as I have noted before, in the event of a strike my opinion is most owners will support NJA, not flee from it. (Keep in mind who most of the owners are and their opnions on organized labor). Just my 2 cents.