To all members in good standing of IBT Local 1108 that frequent Flightinfo.com:

[mat slinghoff]

Why would pilots from other companies want to see your TA fail?

The longer FlightOptions can operate similar aircraft at lower pay, the longer it puts these other companies (like mine) at a competitive disadvantage because of your lower staffing costs.

I think you kind of answered your own question. If this TA is ratified, Flight Options will continue to have a competitive advantage over its competition. Some pilots, at other companies will fear that this competitive advantage will put downward pressure on their own wages. If, on the other hand, the TA is not ratified, some will calculate that chaos may ensue at Flight Options, thereby removing the competitive advantage, temporarily or even permanently.

As for us, if the pilots at Flight Options ratify this contract, the company will avoid the massive losses suffered elsewhere and we will live to fight another day. We will enter the next round of bargaining as a stronger Union, with the benefit of a CBA and associated protections, which will have to be reckoned with in what will, hopefully, be a robust economy.

 

[993_Pilot]

As I’ve written here before; if you want my position with the Union, come get it. There is an election in the fall. Why don’t you take off your mask of invisibility and run for office.

Mat, I have no designs on your position as I have said before. I have never attacked you personally, or your character, and never would. I know that you have personally sacrificed a lot to get this TA, and I appreciate all of your effort, however, I still happen to think we could do much better and that is where we differ. This truly is not personal.

As for your characterization of your efforts here, let me just say that I don’t think you are simply “presenting things from a different perspective,” nor that you support our Union, as you would have us believe. If any of that were true, you would enter the debate on the official Union message board under your real name, not hide behind some fictitious moniker. Any number of members have asked questions and expressed reservations about various provisions in the TA on the Union’s message board. All of these concerns are being addressed in a respectful and forthright manner by the Union’s leadership. What are you so afraid of?

I'm not afraid of anything. What makes you so sure I haven't been on the IBT message board to voice some of my concerns?

No, I think you are working hard to convince others to vote against this TA for your own selfish purposes, often using inaccurate or incomplete information to do it. I’m not interested in trying to “sell” this TA to our pilots, but I do want to be sure they have all the facts about what they will be voting on. This is a very complex agreement that has been difficult to achieve. You are continuing your attempts to undermine our effort, taking potshots at us while hiding in the safety of the shadows so you cannot be held accountable for your handiwork, should it succeed.

You are way off base here, I have no selfish motive in this, only the interests of the pilot group as a whole. In fact I have the interest of the entire industry in mind here. How do you think the pay in this TA (if ratified) will play out for the future of the industry? I'm thinking not too well. Lowering the bar this far, even in the current economic climate, will probably hurt the industry for many years to come. If you look back at my history of posts, I am sure that you will find that I have been supportive of the IBT the entire time. I still support the IBT, with the exception of this TA. If you don't like it, that's too bad, because it is the way I feel, and as a MIGS, I have a right to voice my opinion and to try to persuade others if I care to. Would you allow me that lattitude on the IBT message board?... I think not... and that's why I'm here.

I will promise you one thing. We will find out who you are (we always do). And when we do, I will personally insure all of our members know who you are and what you have done to work against their best interests.

Have at it. You'll only be telling them what several people already know, because all those who have spoken to me already know how I feel. I still happen to think that voting "NO" will be in their best interest in the long run.

I'll say it again for you... The pay vs. duration equation doesn't balance. If you want me to vote yes just to get the work rules and have a contract, then shorten the duration. If you want to keep a long duration, then raise the pay. It really is simple.

Perhaps you don't care what is important to me, and maybe that's the case, because you certainly didn't solicit my opinion before you negotiated this TA. Did you even consider taking a poll of the pilot group, or at least the entire IBT membership before negotiations began? If not, then don't be too surprised if this fails, regardless of how great you think this is. You're giving me way too much credit if you think that my posts alone could tip the scales.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for... you just might get it.

I know that many members of IBT Local 1108 frequent this message board and that some have even come to rely upon it for news, views and other information believed to be germane to our unique situation at Flight Options. I want each of you to consider whether the information you are getting here is accurate and whether it’s worth engaging in a debate about our Tentative Agreement (TA) outside the Union’s official message board and our Flight Options pilot family.

Consider that this forum is home to non-members (who can’t vote on the TA), some former members of the Union’s leadership, who have political axes to grind with your Union’s current leadership, and pilots from other companies, some of whom would like nothing better than to see us fail in our efforts to reach a ratified collective bargaining agreement. These are individuals who may not fully understand the TA’s language or its provisions or may have an unfriendly agenda. Remember there is a reason people come to an anonymous message board, like this one, to post their opinions.

If you are a member-in-good standing of Local 1108, I urge you to go to the official 1108 website, read the entire TA carefully and direct your questions, opinions and comments to a member of the Negotiating Committee or Executive Board. Do not rely on rumors or interpretations, posted here, from, well, only God knows who, since the authors of almost all the posts on this message board hide behind fictitious names.

There is a Q&A forum on the 1108 website where your questions will be answered in a timely fashion by members of the Negotiating Committee. We will treat your questions with respect and answer them honestly, openly, as factually and forthrightly as possible. Of critical importance, you will know who is providing you with those answers and can hold them accountable. It is vitally important for you to understand what you will be voting on based on fact, not speculation, conjecture, politics, mal-motive or hidden agendas.

Once again, congratulations to all Local 1108 members. Your support and solidarity was the key to reaching this milestone TA for our first pilot contract at Flight Options.

Fraternally,
Capt. Mat Slinghoff, President
IBT Local 1108

In other words, drink the kool-aide in a controlled environment. They want to know who the people are that don't like what they've negotiated so they can "educate" them to what is right. (more kool-aide)


Be careful what you ask for... you just might get it.

 

[B19 Flyer]

If it was a good T/A, you wouldn't need to lobby for it. Nuff said.

Now, this is truly priceless. Some of the guys have told me that you were on this message board while we were in negotiations advocating that our pilots vote for an in-house union. If you did any reading about labor and unions, you would have found out that, quite often, those kinds of organizations at small companies, like ours, are just extensions of management’s control over the workforce. What management job were you bucking for?

While I was at the bargaining table working hard to improve our wages, working conditions and job protections, you were intent on undermining my efforts by encouraging disunion and showing our management the face of a divided pilot group.

So, you think I “boned” the furloughed pilots? Any union’s strength is derived from it’s solidarity, or at least management’s perception of that solidarity. When we are perceived as week and divided, they exploit it in negotiations. I think you knew that, when you were advocating an in-house union, and yet you did it anyway, working to weaken us at the table. If you believe this TA is inadequate, take a long look in the mirror, when looking for somebody to blame.

As for me jumping to management, think again. I’ll leave that objective to brown-nosing guys like you. I plan on requalifying as soon as I can so I can again fly the line.

Matt, with all due respect I don't know you personally and truly understand and respect the concept of the passion of what you feel is right. I'm certain you are a good man.

Throughout my career I've dealt union leadership at all levels, and the thought of ANY union president posting on boards like this just blows your credibility all to hell with this T/A.

If it was a good T/A, you wouldn't need to lobby for it. Nuff said.

 

[William Holiday]

Matt, with all due respect I don't know you personally and truly understand and respect the concept of the passion of what you feel is right. I'm certain you are a good man.

Throughout my career I've dealt union leadership at all levels, and the thought of ANY union president posting on boards like this just blows your credibility all to hell with this T/A.

If it was a good T/A, you wouldn't need to lobby for it. Nuff said.

If this blows Matts credibility, where is yours.? It's 2010 welcome to the internet.

 

[be-400xpdriver]

If this TA is ratified, Flight Options will continue to have a competitive advantage over its competition.

Competitive advantage because the pilots will be payed like Walmart door greeters thanks to the "milestone" contract you have negotiated

 

[be-400xpdriver]

Dear Tom,

Or whoever the heck you are. If you are a member in good standing with Local 1108 why don’t you give me a call and I’d be happy to talk about it.

Dear Matt,

Good guess my middle name is Tom.

I use to be a member in good standing with 1108 until July 08. We NJA pilots left you with our dues money, approx. 1.7 million, hoping you would put it to good use and get a fair contract for the FLOPS pilots. But this is what we got for our money, a pittiful excuse of a contract that even Johhny O over at Mesa is laughing at. Hopefully the FLOPS pilots will vote this p.o.s. down and you will be voted out just like the 2004 NJA P.O.S.T.A. and the fab 5.

Oh yeah almost forgot when are you going to change the ibt1108 web site?

Sincerely

Tough Guy

 

[fracjack]

Hello Mat

Now, this is truly priceless. Some of the guys have told me that you were on this message board while we were in negotiations advocating that our pilots vote for an in-house union. If you did any reading about labor and unions, you would have found out that, quite often, those kinds of organizations at small companies, like ours, are just extensions of management’s control over the workforce. What management job were you bucking for?

While I was at the bargaining table working hard to improve our wages, working conditions and job protections, you were intent on undermining my efforts by encouraging disunion and showing our management the face of a divided pilot group.

So, you think I “boned” the furloughed pilots? Any union’s strength is derived from it’s solidarity, or at least management’s perception of that solidarity. When we are perceived as week and divided, they exploit it in negotiations. I think you knew that, when you were advocating an in-house union, and yet you did it anyway, working to weaken us at the table. If you believe this TA is inadequate, take a long look in the mirror, when looking for somebody to blame.

As for me jumping to management, think again. I’ll leave that objective to brown-nosing guys like you. I plan on requalifying as soon as I can so I can again fly the line.

This is exactly what happened because you have no solidarity. Inhouse was suggested only after a possible CBA to unite the whole because the EB could not or would not. I particularily despise the fact you refunded dues payed by the 70 fired and rehired while the company paid them backpay. We know many of those deserved to be fired and will agree many were innocent victims of Sh!teenga's wrath.The orchestrated by laws change to collect dues prior to a TA ,voted in by Netjets pilots (the overwhelming majority at the time) and the IBT brownnosers at FLOPS was a disaster that cost 1108 credibility after the majority voted for representation based on what was presented initially. The carefully veiled slowdown and cost increasing attempts by IBT supporters did much to alienate owners and passholders and cost pilot jobs in the end. The industry is watching this meltdown and the bar has been lowered so far that this union will never gain credibility. But I am sure you can try to blame it all on the economy for the failure without admitting mistakes. Take a look in the mirror yourself and make sure your advisors are standing behind you. Are you sure David Bourne does not have a management position for you?

 

[B19 Flyer]

I'm not the union president trying to sell a T/A on the internet like a used car.

If this blows Matts credibility, where is yours.? It's 2010 welcome to the internet.

I'm not the union president trying to sell a T/A on the internet like a used car salesman. You guys get what you asked for.

I'm a guy screwed over repeatedly by unions that has up front knowledge of the process.

Watching him argue his point to sell a document that will affect the lives of all these pilots is unprofessional and demeaning to the group that put him in the position, and it's no different than NJW speaking her opinion knowing that it could only come from her husband. He was smart enough to stop it.

All I'm saying, is that if this so called T/A is all that great, he should use a little class if he is going to respond at all. Instead, he's acting like the union official that he is and acting like a thug if you don't buy into what they've negotiated.

Add that to the hundreds of reasons why I think that unions are garbage and don't protect as they say they do in today's day and age.

It's a business... pure and simple. The union stands to make money and the vehicle is the ratification of the T/A.

Enjoy... this is YOUR union leadership at work. I don't have to worry about that.

 

[993_Pilot]

B19, save your anti-union drivel for someone else. Although I am not happy with this TA, I still think that I would rather put my fate in the unions hands than at the whims of management. I may respectfully disagree with their opinion of the TA, but the union volunteers have spent a great deal of time negotiating this contract, and I certainly respect them for their effort. Although they may be a bit too emotionally invested, we certainly don't want or need your help here. We get it, you don't like unions. You have no dog in this fight, so move along, or start your own thread.

 

[mat slinghoff]

Dear Matt,

Good guess my middle name is Tom.

I use to be a member in good standing with 1108 until July 08. We NJA pilots left you with our dues money, approx. 1.7 million, hoping you would put it to good use and get a fair contract for the FLOPS pilots. But this is what we got for our money, a pittiful excuse of a contract that even Johhny O over at Mesa is laughing at. Hopefully the FLOPS pilots will vote this p.o.s. down and you will be voted out just like the 2004 NJA P.O.S.T.A. and the fab 5.

Oh yeah almost forgot when are you going to change the ibt1108 web site?

Sincerely

Tough Guy

Dear Tom,

If you think I'm gonna take the bait and run with that one you're insane. Nice try though.

 

[ITFL]

This is exactly what happened because you have no solidarity. Inhouse was suggested only after a possible CBA to unite the whole because the EB could not or would not. I particularily despise the fact you refunded dues payed by the 70 fired and rehired while the company paid them backpay. We know many of those deserved to be fired and will agree many were innocent victims of Sh!teenga's wrath.The orchestrated by laws change to collect dues prior to a TA ,voted in by Netjets pilots (the overwhelming majority at the time) and the IBT brownnosers at FLOPS was a disaster that cost 1108 credibility after the majority voted for representation based on what was presented initially. The carefully veiled slowdown and cost increasing attempts by IBT supporters did much to alienate owners and passholders and cost pilot jobs in the end. The industry is watching this meltdown and the bar has been lowered so far that this union will never gain credibility. But I am sure you can try to blame it all on the economy for the failure without admitting mistakes. Take a look in the mirror yourself and make sure your advisors are standing behind you. Are you sure David Bourne does not have a management position for you?

So what you’re basically saying is that because the Executive Board decided to allow only members in good standing to vote on the TA you decided, rather than paying your dues, to undermine the whole effort with an in-house union drive while the Negotiating Committee was at the table engaged in hard bargaining? When you say “unite the whole”, what you really mean is “give something for nothing”, do I have that about right? And the 70 “deserved to be fired”? Is that right also?

By taking stances like that (as a well-known leader of the in-house movement), you’ve just gone a long way to ensuring this in-house you’ve been peddling never takes root. Thanks.

Oh, and by the way. Since you are clearly not in good standing and therefore can’t vote on the TA. We don’t really care what you think, because as a non-MIGS, your opinions carry no weight.

 

[William Holiday]

Hey frickfrac....Many RIF pilots, will always remember the good will of the 1108 and the teamsters. Many feel that the 1108 leadership deserves every consideration possible. My gut feel is that your gonna write a big check.

 

[William Holiday]

BTW B-19, Matt is doing nothing more than defending himself, and the contract that his team helped orcastrate. I give the dude alot of credit for having the "Balls" to post on this forum in his name. The same can not be said of you or I. That being said....I think the guy has class and balls. Not traits of the used car guy, you seem to have so much disdain for.

 

[William Holiday]

One more thing B-19....That car salesman you trash contributes more profit to his employer than you give him credit for. Consider this at a Class A dealer the avg used car guy is selling 15-20 units per mo at a avg profit of 3700 dollars....you do the math. At least he is making an honest living for himself. He contributes to the economy, helps his employer make a buck, and puts food on the table for his family. What about you ?