To all members in good standing of IBT Local 1108 that frequent Flightinfo.com:

[be-400xpdriver]

If this TA is ratified, Flight Options will continue to have a competitive advantage over its competition.

Competitive advantage because the pilots will be payed like Walmart door greeters thanks to the "milestone" contract you have negotiated

 

[be-400xpdriver]

Dear Tom,

Or whoever the heck you are. If you are a member in good standing with Local 1108 why don’t you give me a call and I’d be happy to talk about it.

Dear Matt,

Good guess my middle name is Tom.

I use to be a member in good standing with 1108 until July 08. We NJA pilots left you with our dues money, approx. 1.7 million, hoping you would put it to good use and get a fair contract for the FLOPS pilots. But this is what we got for our money, a pittiful excuse of a contract that even Johhny O over at Mesa is laughing at. Hopefully the FLOPS pilots will vote this p.o.s. down and you will be voted out just like the 2004 NJA P.O.S.T.A. and the fab 5.

Oh yeah almost forgot when are you going to change the ibt1108 web site?

Sincerely

Tough Guy

 

[fracjack]

Hello Mat

Now, this is truly priceless. Some of the guys have told me that you were on this message board while we were in negotiations advocating that our pilots vote for an in-house union. If you did any reading about labor and unions, you would have found out that, quite often, those kinds of organizations at small companies, like ours, are just extensions of management’s control over the workforce. What management job were you bucking for?

While I was at the bargaining table working hard to improve our wages, working conditions and job protections, you were intent on undermining my efforts by encouraging disunion and showing our management the face of a divided pilot group.

So, you think I “boned” the furloughed pilots? Any union’s strength is derived from it’s solidarity, or at least management’s perception of that solidarity. When we are perceived as week and divided, they exploit it in negotiations. I think you knew that, when you were advocating an in-house union, and yet you did it anyway, working to weaken us at the table. If you believe this TA is inadequate, take a long look in the mirror, when looking for somebody to blame.

As for me jumping to management, think again. I’ll leave that objective to brown-nosing guys like you. I plan on requalifying as soon as I can so I can again fly the line.

This is exactly what happened because you have no solidarity. Inhouse was suggested only after a possible CBA to unite the whole because the EB could not or would not. I particularily despise the fact you refunded dues payed by the 70 fired and rehired while the company paid them backpay. We know many of those deserved to be fired and will agree many were innocent victims of Sh!teenga's wrath.The orchestrated by laws change to collect dues prior to a TA ,voted in by Netjets pilots (the overwhelming majority at the time) and the IBT brownnosers at FLOPS was a disaster that cost 1108 credibility after the majority voted for representation based on what was presented initially. The carefully veiled slowdown and cost increasing attempts by IBT supporters did much to alienate owners and passholders and cost pilot jobs in the end. The industry is watching this meltdown and the bar has been lowered so far that this union will never gain credibility. But I am sure you can try to blame it all on the economy for the failure without admitting mistakes. Take a look in the mirror yourself and make sure your advisors are standing behind you. Are you sure David Bourne does not have a management position for you?

 

[B19 Flyer]

I'm not the union president trying to sell a T/A on the internet like a used car.

If this blows Matts credibility, where is yours.? It's 2010 welcome to the internet.

I'm not the union president trying to sell a T/A on the internet like a used car salesman. You guys get what you asked for.

I'm a guy screwed over repeatedly by unions that has up front knowledge of the process.

Watching him argue his point to sell a document that will affect the lives of all these pilots is unprofessional and demeaning to the group that put him in the position, and it's no different than NJW speaking her opinion knowing that it could only come from her husband. He was smart enough to stop it.

All I'm saying, is that if this so called T/A is all that great, he should use a little class if he is going to respond at all. Instead, he's acting like the union official that he is and acting like a thug if you don't buy into what they've negotiated.

Add that to the hundreds of reasons why I think that unions are garbage and don't protect as they say they do in today's day and age.

It's a business... pure and simple. The union stands to make money and the vehicle is the ratification of the T/A.

Enjoy... this is YOUR union leadership at work. I don't have to worry about that.

 

[993_Pilot]

B19, save your anti-union drivel for someone else. Although I am not happy with this TA, I still think that I would rather put my fate in the unions hands than at the whims of management. I may respectfully disagree with their opinion of the TA, but the union volunteers have spent a great deal of time negotiating this contract, and I certainly respect them for their effort. Although they may be a bit too emotionally invested, we certainly don't want or need your help here. We get it, you don't like unions. You have no dog in this fight, so move along, or start your own thread.

 

[mat slinghoff]

Dear Matt,

Good guess my middle name is Tom.

I use to be a member in good standing with 1108 until July 08. We NJA pilots left you with our dues money, approx. 1.7 million, hoping you would put it to good use and get a fair contract for the FLOPS pilots. But this is what we got for our money, a pittiful excuse of a contract that even Johhny O over at Mesa is laughing at. Hopefully the FLOPS pilots will vote this p.o.s. down and you will be voted out just like the 2004 NJA P.O.S.T.A. and the fab 5.

Oh yeah almost forgot when are you going to change the ibt1108 web site?

Sincerely

Tough Guy

Dear Tom,

If you think I'm gonna take the bait and run with that one you're insane. Nice try though.

 

[ITFL]

This is exactly what happened because you have no solidarity. Inhouse was suggested only after a possible CBA to unite the whole because the EB could not or would not. I particularily despise the fact you refunded dues payed by the 70 fired and rehired while the company paid them backpay. We know many of those deserved to be fired and will agree many were innocent victims of Sh!teenga's wrath.The orchestrated by laws change to collect dues prior to a TA ,voted in by Netjets pilots (the overwhelming majority at the time) and the IBT brownnosers at FLOPS was a disaster that cost 1108 credibility after the majority voted for representation based on what was presented initially. The carefully veiled slowdown and cost increasing attempts by IBT supporters did much to alienate owners and passholders and cost pilot jobs in the end. The industry is watching this meltdown and the bar has been lowered so far that this union will never gain credibility. But I am sure you can try to blame it all on the economy for the failure without admitting mistakes. Take a look in the mirror yourself and make sure your advisors are standing behind you. Are you sure David Bourne does not have a management position for you?

So what you’re basically saying is that because the Executive Board decided to allow only members in good standing to vote on the TA you decided, rather than paying your dues, to undermine the whole effort with an in-house union drive while the Negotiating Committee was at the table engaged in hard bargaining? When you say “unite the whole”, what you really mean is “give something for nothing”, do I have that about right? And the 70 “deserved to be fired”? Is that right also?

By taking stances like that (as a well-known leader of the in-house movement), you’ve just gone a long way to ensuring this in-house you’ve been peddling never takes root. Thanks.

Oh, and by the way. Since you are clearly not in good standing and therefore can’t vote on the TA. We don’t really care what you think, because as a non-MIGS, your opinions carry no weight.

 

[William Holiday]

Hey frickfrac....Many RIF pilots, will always remember the good will of the 1108 and the teamsters. Many feel that the 1108 leadership deserves every consideration possible. My gut feel is that your gonna write a big check.

 

[William Holiday]

BTW B-19, Matt is doing nothing more than defending himself, and the contract that his team helped orcastrate. I give the dude alot of credit for having the "Balls" to post on this forum in his name. The same can not be said of you or I. That being said....I think the guy has class and balls. Not traits of the used car guy, you seem to have so much disdain for.

 

[William Holiday]

One more thing B-19....That car salesman you trash contributes more profit to his employer than you give him credit for. Consider this at a Class A dealer the avg used car guy is selling 15-20 units per mo at a avg profit of 3700 dollars....you do the math. At least he is making an honest living for himself. He contributes to the economy, helps his employer make a buck, and puts food on the table for his family. What about you ?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for.

He contributes to the economy, helps his employer make a buck, and puts food on the table for his family. What about you ?

I've dedicated an entire career to keeping your butt and those passengers you carry safe in the airplane. Doesn't make any difference what airline you are with or what part you fly under my efforts have made a difference throughout the industry, especially for the the fractionals.

You?

A quality T/A doesn't need to be sold. It's clear this needs to be sold.

Be careful what you ask for.

 

[brokeflyer]

my efforts have made a difference throughout the industry, especially for the the fractionals.

lol

fcking funny right there.

 

[B19 Flyer]

lol

fcking funny right there.

Yes... it's funny, and I share your humor with the absolute truth as always. Next time you reach for that title 14 book of magic, rest assured that my words lie within and help make you safer every single time you or any of your radical friends fly.... I've made a positive difference in your life and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Deal with it.

 

[993_Pilot]

Yes... it's funny, and I share your humor with the absolute truth as always. Next time you reach for that title 14 book of magic, rest assured that my words lie within and help make you safer every single time you or any of your radical friends fly.... I've made a positive difference in your life and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Deal with it.

Congratulations... but just don't throw your shoulder out of joint trying to pat yourself on the back.

 

[wacoflyr]

Yes... it's funny, and I share your humor with the absolute truth as always. Next time you reach for that title 14 book of magic, rest assured that my words lie within and help make you safer every single time you or any of your radical friends fly.... I've made a positive difference in your life and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Deal with it.

This is the most arrogant, self-righteous, ego-inflated statement I have heard since I acidentally stumbled across Rush Limbaugh on the radio last summer.
Let me ask you something B19, are you trying to change people's minds, or just score points? If the former, it is wise to first establish some kind of a dialogue before you present your arguments, and then present them in a manner that your audience can relate to. You need to show them that you care about them, and that you can appreciate their point of view.
If you are just trying to score points, then you sound like a partner in a bad marriage. Just for fun, and in keeping with your level of manners, I'll take the opposite side! SHUT UP!!!!!

 

[netjetwife]

Oh, I see. So if its rejected, is it not a milestone? Its a major step in the process no matter what happens. And the next TA will be the "new" milestone? Another...is more fitting.

I'm so confused....

Considering that by definition a milestone is an important event and a significant point in development, the present TA, regardless of opinions about it, does represent a lot of hard work and determination by the Options pilotgroup and their families. Their progress to date is to be commended, especially since they had to stand up for themselves while management's foot-dragging was matched only by their lack of respect and broken promises.

Flight Options pilots/families, congratulations on reaching this point! You will now have the opportunity to have a direct say in your career. While you debate the pros and cons of your first TA, relish the fact that you are debating and will be voting. That is an accomplishment in and of itself.

Applauding your milestone,
Netjetwife

 

[netjetwife]

.... I have no selfish motive in this, only the interests of the pilot group as a whole. In fact I have the interest of the entire industry in mind here. How do you think the pay in this TA (if ratified) will play out for the future of the industry? I'm thinking not too well. Lowering the bar this far, even in the current economic climate, will probably hurt the industry for many years to come. If you look back at my history of posts, I am sure that you will find that I have been supportive of the IBT the entire time. Same for me. I began encouraging the other fracs to make a stand shortly after I began posting here. I still support the IBT, with the exception of this TA. .... I still happen to think that voting "NO" will be in their best interest in the long run. ... The pay vs. duration equation doesn't balance. .....

This very closely mirrors my own thoughts. Likewise, it appears that a number of the other details are also too slanted in management's favor. I'm not surprised considering the treatment Options pilots have historically received from them.

 

[fracjack]

So what you’re basically saying is that because the Executive Board decided to allow only members in good standing to vote on the TA you decided, rather than paying your dues, to undermine the whole effort with an in-house union drive while the Negotiating Committee was at the table engaged in hard bargaining? When you say “unite the whole”, what you really mean is “give something for nothing”, do I have that about right? And the 70 “deserved to be fired”? Is that right also?

By taking stances like that (as a well-known leader of the in-house movement), you’ve just gone a long way to ensuring this in-house you’ve been peddling never takes root. Thanks.

Oh, and by the way. Since you are clearly not in good standing and therefore can’t vote on the TA. We don’t really care what you think, because as a non-MIGS, your opinions carry no weight.

Between you and billy on holiday you guys seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. You must feel some guilt as a member of the 70 who deserved to get fired not the members of the 70 who were innocent pawns. You'll never make it as a psychic.

 

[I'Zheet M'Drarz]

Next time you reach for that title 14 book of magic, rest assured that my words lie within and help make you safer every single time you or any of your radical friends fly....

Are you also the guy who invented the intermittent wiper?

Good thing your buddy Al Gore invented the internet so you can tell everyone how awesome you are.

You rock!

 

[brokeflyer]

Yes... it's funny, and I share your humor with the absolute truth as always. Next time you reach for that title 14 book of magic, rest assured that my words lie within and help make you safer every single time you or any of your radical friends fly.... I've made a positive difference in your life and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Deal with it.

Well.....you got a long way to go. I invented the MBA and the strip bar.

your apology is accepted.