To 121 pilots from a dispatcher...

[amaineiac]

RVSM,

It isn't that easy here. This place is a classic "us against them" operation. It's a constant p!ssing contest between the PIC's and the dispatchers - they yell, moan and complain constantly. We get to deal with it daily on the phones.

Don't mean to whine about it but this place is a completely different scenario every day.

Let me guess, you work for AMR.

 

[405]

As usual

I am guilty of sending a hot headed response to a hot headed pilot who was disgruntled before he left his hub due to something completely out of my control. The bullet is out of the gun. Nothing can be done now.

This dispatcher is wrong on all counts as determined by the pilots, as usual. Back to the question.

The original question was: If this PIC didn't think he had enough fuel for the intended operation, why didn't PIC call and solve the problem with me?

I don't want to hear a bunch of "I don't trust our dispatchers" and "I have to call Flight Watch" like you've all been posting. That's your company and you need to solve that junk with your management if you have any management.

I respect the pilots at my company. It's a mutual respect scenario though. If I get a cool headed pilot on the phone who's willing to work as a team, things go much better. If I get some lunatic yelling at me about something I have no control over, I lose a whole lot of respect for that individual almost immediately.

What one regional did was require all captains going thru their initial equipment upgrade to spend an ENTIRE shift in with a dispatcher so the captain can see what it all entails, and get the story on the other side of the mic - after all, we're required by law (121.547) to jumpseat and see your side of the ops coin, no reason you cant do the same. Most captains, especially the younger ones, were usually impresed with all the info we have at our fingertips.

I have been screaming for this for five years now. Make it a recurrent training requirement.

 

[minitour]

...The original question was: If this PIC didn't think he had enough fuel for the intended operation, why didn't PIC call and solve the problem with me?

well...the PIC has the final authority over the flight...

If he doesn't have enough fuel, he can me one of two decisions.
1. Do something to get more.
2. Do nothing to get more.

One makes sense, the other doesn't.

I can't imagine looking at the situation and going, "you know, I don't have enough gas for this flight........you ready to go?"

That's just my opinion though...and it's not worth much since I'm still in the 91 world...well...141/61 if you want to split hairs. But you know what I mean.

-mini

 

[~~~^~~~]

I am guilty of sending a hot headed response to a hot headed pilot who was disgruntled before he left his hub due to something completely out of my control.

The original question was: If this PIC didn't think he had enough fuel for the intended operation, why didn't PIC call and solve the problem with me?

Taxi fuel during ground de-icing operations is within your control. Just look at the weather - if the temperature is around 0C and there is precip... If other flights have been taking 1 hour to get off the ground...

Besides the guy wrote and said he was over - fueled. Seems like the problem took care of itself and he did keep you in the loop, as well as providing you advice for the next flight.

But to make you feel better I guess he could have called and got your permission for the fuel already on the airplane. Or, if you need to feel really important, he could have de-fueled, called you, re-fueled, then went to the hotel because everyone would have timed out before de-icing was complete.

Just get over it dude.

 

[CA1900]

What one regional did was require all captains going thru their initial equipment upgrade to spend an ENTIRE shift in with a dispatcher so the captain can see what it all entails, and get the story on the other side of the mic - after all, we're required by law (121.547) to jumpseat and see your side of the ops coin, no reason you cant do the same.

I think that's a great idea.

On those same lines, I'd like to see the dispatchers and crew schedulers at my airline spend MY entire 3-day shift with ME. Not one round-trip on a sunny day once a year. No.

I want them flying 6 legs, pulling into Buffalo at 10:30 at night for our scheduled 9:00 arrival. I want them waking up at 5:15 to get on the 6am van because the 6:30 van will get us there too late for the 6:40 reduced-rest show time, because as I'm sure you know, the 20-minute van rides are part of our "rest." Then sit on a 12-degree airplane for half an hour waiting for a power cart so you can finally do your morning checks.

Then I want them shadowing me for my second 15-hour shift with a 4-hour break in BFE with no food to be found anywhere, no place to rest other than seats in the boarding area, and no pay until we get back to an airplane. Of course they'll get the same generous $5 on per-diem I get for what amount to half of their usual shift. That'll take care of the slim jims from the vending machine that'll have to count as lunch.

Maybe after the third day of that you'll understand why pilots get a little frustrated on their last leg home after 3 continuous days of nothing but being at work and sleeping at a hotel, finding that not enough fuel was ordered. Yeah, he was a hot head. But you try a schedule like that, week after week, and see if you don't get a little loopy. It may be legal on paper, but it's very taxing on the body and the mind.

Cut us a little slack and let it go; I'm sure most of us will do the same for you guys when you get fried on a bad-weather day. Most of us see this all as a team effort on both sides of the table.

 

[surplus1]

As an "outsider" what I see in this thread is essentially a pi_sing contest betweeen some jDX's (junior dispatchers) and some PIC's.

When there's an experienced DX at the table and a Captain (not a PIC) in the airplane, these pi_sing contests just don't happen.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying that and that's OK. The entire discourse strikes me as "amateur hour". Sort of like FOX "News" journalism = junk talk.

 

[405]

Done

Surplus,

You're right. It does seem like an amateur hour now. All I wanted was an answer to a question. I've already admitted that I could have handled the situation in a different way and I sure as he!! know better than to ask a question on here now because I will never be right.

Your junior dispatcher comment may hold true depending on your definition of "junior". No, I didn't work for Eastern or Braniff for 375 years before I got my job now. Also understand, most of the captains I work with are pretty green.

Taxi fuel during ground de-icing operations is within your control. Just look at the weather - if the temperature is around 0C and there is precip... If other flights have been taking 1 hour to get off the ground...

The temp was way low but there was no precip. Crew had 600 lbs extra fuel for any delays with whatever their overfuel was.

I'm done with this thread.

 

[FracCapt]

Then I want them shadowing me for my second 15-hour shift with a 4-hour break in BFE with no food to be found anywhere, no place to rest other than seats in the boarding area, and no pay until we get back to an airplane. Of course they'll get the same generous $5 on per-diem I get for what amount to half of their usual shift. That'll take care of the slim jims from the vending machine that'll have to count as lunch.

I just had a GREAT marketing idea for airline management! You can SELL slots in the right seat of regional aircraft like yours....and market it as a DIET!

 

[English]

Are you the famous clickmaster?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=419&item=6502466237&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

 

[CA1900]

I just had a GREAT marketing idea for airline management! You can SELL slots in the right seat of regional aircraft like yours....and market it as a DIET!

Heh... already been done! Except Gulfstream markets it as "training."