Time to say NO MORE

[Nindiri]

Airlines would simply go outside of a national union to hire.

 

[B-atch]

SirFlyalot, this is the kind of idea that needs to flourish if we are to survive as a profession...Unfortunately, pilots are short sighted , self centered, and self serving.. It would be difficult, even in these trying times, to convince the ENTIRE pilot group to think collectively. I for one, give you my vote on this. I hope that some day we can all agree on what is good for the profession.

 

[SirFlyALot]

Airlines would simply go outside of a national union to hire.

Nindiri, okay, you're right. We're done for. Let's sit on our hands. Or, more accurately, let's pull down our pants and bend over some more. There's no hope. There's no way to defeat that possibility.

I'm sorry to say this, but your reasoning is the kind of reasoning that has emasculated pilots as a group. Your reasoning paints you and all of us as stooges and patsies to management. It is exactly what management wants us to think. It's exactly the kind of thinking that will see pilots become nothing more than blue collar vocational workers. Welcome to your brave new world handed to all of us courtesy of weak-minded people like you. I hope you like it.

However, your argument does raise a valid concern. I addressed this in my original post. We, as a group, must research and develop valid ways to combat the real threat posed by scabs. Other unions have confronted the same problem and overcome it. There is no reason in the world why we can't.

 

[Nindiri]

You read a lot in that one sentence, eh?

My thinking is reality. You can deny facts all you want, but it isn't going to change them. How do you plan to force all pilots to join the national union? What if a group of pilots chooses to sign their own independent contract with an airline?

 

[furloughed dude]

Gotta love these guys that want someone else to stand up. When it comes to their job, they see otherwise....

 

[Corona]

Like the acronym of my screen name points out.... You Guys Are So Fukced!

Nice mirrored shades, dude. Do they work with the ladies?

C

 

[IB6 UB9]

Nindiri has it right, morbid as it sounds. How do you expect pilots to band together on a national level when they can't even do it at their own company. Example...Delta guys (Ithinkit'scalled) greenslipping while guys are furloughed, NWA folks picking up (Ithinkit'scalled) hightime. Chalk it up as another great idea that will never work because there is no unity, none at an ALPA carrier or anywhere else.

 

[B-atch]

Time to go OVERSEAS!! Asia's market is about to explode.....And not enough pilots to meet the demand......Perhaps what this country needs is a REAL pilot shortage....

 

[pilotyip]

There is already a shortage of qualified pilots in the US. All the airlines that are hiring are redefining their competitive minimums to fill their classes. Pinnacle just prior the NWA meltdown was offering a $1,000 signing bonus. Guys with the flight time are being hired as Captain or making it in one year. All of pilots leaving had no problems finding jobs. That is a shortage.

 

[jbDC9]

There is already a shortage of qualified pilots in the US. All the airlines that are hiring are redefining their competitive minimums to fill their classes. Pinnacle just prior the NWA meltdown was offering a $1,000 signing bonus. Guys with the flight time are being hired as Captain or making it in one year. All of pilots leaving had no problems finding jobs. That is a shortage.

Umm, I don't think so... did you forget about all the furloughees on the street? They're out there by the thousands; methinks the reason they're not all applying to the regionals that are hiring and growing (and taking over mainline flying) is that they don't want to start over at the bottom rung of a regional making crap pay. Perhaps they've found better pay working as a car salesman or at Home Depot... I really don't think there's a pilot shortage here.

 

[pilotyip]

Yes there are drops outs, but more jobs are being created than are disappearing, there just not the same jobs that are disappearing, $100K/yr for a high grad is still achievable.

 

[CUZ]

I agree with DC9. I'm not seeing a Pilot Shortage when there are thousands of our brethren on the street. I dont think there are any easy answers to the predicament this business is in. I do see signs of pilots joining together for the good of our profession, and that could be promising.

 

[MedFlyer]

A major pilot shortage would certainly help drive wages up, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. The only reason there appears to be a shortage at the regional level is because most of the guys furloughed at mainline won't work at a regional. Most of the furloughed mainline guys I know have taken desk jobs....because they pay better than at a regional.

I'll agree that a national union might help, but all the unions in the world can't overcome basic economics. And the airline industry economics SUCK!!! Even the few profitable airlines have margins that most industries would consider laughable.

This industry is too energy intensive (fuel), too capital intensive (expensive planes and support infrastructure), heavily regulated and too vulnerable to economic turmoil. Given all these factors, large scale strikes will not hold up.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I agree about the supposed shortage at the regionals. The only reason they are short is because of the pay. When I was furloughed I considered the regionals, did the numbers and found that there was no way to support my family on the wages. As a Captain, yes, barely. But by the time I made Capt. my family would have alredy lost the house. And I am not talking about a big house, 139k purchase price on 2000.

Literally you can make more money in almost ANY other field. Got a furloughed buddy that pressure washes houses. Has maybe $4000 in equipment on his trailer, and makes roughly the same as a 6th year Capt. at most regionals. He is expanding this year and buying another rig so he should be surpassing what he could make flying the RJ very soon.

If I were young again and single, regionals would be a possibility, married with kids, preschool, daycare, mortgage etc... No chance.

I have nothing against the airplanes, they are fun to fly, but I simply cannot afford to fly them again. 10 years ago and living in an apartment with no kids I did it just fine. Regionals for the most part will not support a family until you are a 5th or 6th year capt. It can be done earlier, but when one can make more money doing almost anything else, why bother?

 

[msmb]

A United guy on another thread said if he see's D. Worthless one more time on the cover of the Alpa mag. accepting ANOTHER award for God knows what, he is going to puke. Alpa has done NOTHING for the airline industry for a long time. That's why we are where we are now. I may be crazy but why don't all of the airlines raise there damn ticket prices? Why is it that someone can go from LAX to JKF for $200? That is stupid. People are still going to fly and the planes will still be full. Why are we having to pay for stupid mistakes made by management? I don't buy the low cost carrier argument. They only have so many a/c that hold so many people. Raise the damn prices instead of punishing the workers. This is asnine. JetBlue is going to probably post a loss this quarter and what about when they have to start paying for a/c?? They will probably be taking a paycut too.... It's not always going to be rosey over there. Why can't we all band together and freakin' stop this downhill slide?? Management has gotten away with this because we have let them.

 

[IB6 UB9]

JetBlue is going to probably post a loss this quarter and what about when they have to start paying for a/c?? quote]

Wait until we have to start paying for fuel...we're fukced.