Time For SkyWest Pilots To Step Up

[PBRstreetgang]

Wow PBR, you've won my heart and mind! I'm voting UNION.

If you really do have the PIC and you're such a dang unhappy wage slave, you should have the manly orbs to go on to the next level. But then again, you do not appear to be so equipped.

Well,
BvD, I do not expect to convince you of anything, if you do not have the intellectual capacity to determine the reality of our situation, well you just might deserve whatever comes your way, enjoy the forced CR7 bid, regular transition hosing, maybe the new and improved bucket system, or even the previously never airline used, PBS system. It's not that I am an "unhappy wage slave", I just do not like working without a net. I have spent a lot of time and worked for too little $. I now have a position that allows me to sit back and watch, but I choose not to. Manly orbs? like you have anything remotely resembling a pair? Why dont you grow some frontal lobes instead of thinking with your under developed genitalia.Go ahead and lick those mini-nuts bwDOG.
PBR

 

[Black Water Dog]

If you think ALPA is going to give you some kind of safety net and a workers paradise, you sir are the delusional one. (Apparently ALPA has a Koolaide recipe too.)

Perhaps you have never worked at another regional to see what real abuse is. As the ASA or Trans States folks (and probably many others) know all too well a company can violate at will (or even terminate pilots) and work the grievance process. A year later, you may even win. Oh, and ask the next Water Skiier you see about Alter Ego clauses.

Bottom line is ALPA still has a lot of selling to do to the regional pilots.

 

[hoover]

As for the union thing, they are only as good as your elected leaders. ALPA national clearly doesn't look out for the best interest of regional pilots (arguably any pilots) but the concept of a collective bargaining agreement that is agreed upon by both parties is certainly a huge plus.

I disagree. A union is only as good as the management it works with. Look at companies like Trans States and Mesa. They have unions and their people are miserable. This is because their management has no willingness to work with their people to make things better for everyone. It's their way or the highway, regardless of whether or not their way is better. They view labor unions as roadblocks, as obstacles to be overcome. Mesa is a good example of this. They would never let something like an AGREEMENT stop them from getting what they wanted.

On the other hand you have managements like SWA and AWAC, who signed agreements in good faith with their unions and do what they can to honor their agreements (as an honorable man does). If a union contract is contrary to what they want or need to do, they work with the union to find a solution, rather than trying to do an end run around the contract.

As a group, the SKW pilots feel they do not need a union, at least up to this point. Who are we to tell them what they should do?

 

[J32driver]

If you think ALPA is going to give you some kind of safety net...

As the ASA or Trans States folks (and probably many others) know all too well a company can violate at will (or even terminate pilots) and work the grievance process. A year later, you may even win.

Funny. "Safety Net" is exactly what I would call ALPA.

...and if the greivance is a valid one, the affected pilot will be made whole by the company. Take a year off, go do something else, then get awarded back pay and damages if thats the way management wants to treat you. I know of a handful of guys that have been through this process at some of the less desireable carriers.

What would a SkyWest pilot do if manegement decided to make an example out of you and fired you for something trivial? Stomp his feet real loud and start applying to other airlines?

 

[DrewBlows]

After SKW gets unionized, what would prevent management from creating an AlterEgo airline?

Scope. It's the first section in any well written agreement.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Scope. It's the first section in any well written agreement.

Why doesn't ALPA allow any regional airlines to have any?

Bob Arnold asked to negotiate with Delta, who has (had) operational control of ASA's flying. Delta said they would talk to who ever ALPA put at the table. ALPA blocked ASA's scope negotiations. The letters are published on teh RJDc's web site and after every possible method of working with ALPA failed, ASA and Comair pilots as a last resort have sued the union to try to correct their behavior.

Yes, ALPA does a great job on the local level and would benefit the SkyWest pilots - but - before doing anything we all must insist on ALPA fixing the representational problems at national, otherwise it will be the same crap on a larger scale.

Black Water Dog is correct - "ALPA has a lot of selling to do."

 

[Black Water Dog]

...and if the greivance is a valid one, the affected pilot will be made whole by the company. Take a year off, go do something else, then get awarded back pay and damages if thats the way management wants to treat you. I know of a handful of guys that have been through this process at some of the less desireable carriers.

What you say is true. The union reps that were fired by Trans States are a case in point. They will almost certainly win sometime next year and get back pay. Even so, that can hardly be viewed as a "career enhancement". It represents a year lost in accumulating the experience needed to move on to the final flying job (presumably a major airline). It also represents one less year to fly with that major airline and the compensation that goes with ones last year of seniority. Not a pretty prospect.

 

[J32driver]

What you say is true. The union reps that were fired by Trans States are a case in point. They will almost certainly win sometime next year and get back pay. Even so, that can hardly be viewed as a "career enhancement". It represents a year lost in accumulating the experience needed to move on to the final flying job (presumably a major airline). It also represents one less year to fly with that major airline and the compensation that goes with ones last year of seniority. Not a pretty prospect.

Your absolutely correct. But it would be even worse for those pilots if ALPA wasn't there to back them up.

 

[RoyalAviation2]

Imagine this, ASA pilots continue to fight for a better contract, but SkyWest management does not want to give it to them. ASA starts to make some ruckus, what do you think would happen? Thats right, SW mgmt will give the flying to SW and the SW pilots cant do anything about without a scope clause in a contract. So think about who is screwing who. If the SW pilots had a contract with scope or some merger/aquisition language, it would prevent SW mgmt from whipsawing one pilot group against the other. This would obviously lower the bar for everyone. And if I hear one more SW pilot tell me their pay and QOL is equal to or as good as anybody out there, Im going to puke. Pay might be almost on par in some areas, but QOL is far from airlines with unions.

Please please SW pilots, we are all in this industry together, we all need to watch out for each other. We all need to feed our families and being non-union hurts this fraternity of pilots. Step up to the plate and start the union drive. Do it for your new co-workers.

A LOT of SKYW pilots are waiting for the cards to be passed out. Names are being taken. We're coming close and WE WILL UNIONIZE! To many people that were on the fence before have been rubbed the wrong way.

We're with you ASA guys!

I think now that our group will be 4000+ strong we can form our own in house union. I haven't heard any good things about ALPA.

 

[J32driver]

I haven't heard any good things about ALPA.

I have nothing but good things to say about my local branch of ALPA. Its run by a bunch of good guys who are looking out for the pilot group and at the same time aren't out to screw the company either. They fight hard for our needs and I'm quite happy to be represented by them.

The flaw with ALPA National is there is no common goal among its seperate chapters. We are all fighting for our futures, and that pits the local ALPA units against each other in a way.

The benefits to ALPA National are money and insurance. When you folks at SkyWest are fighting for your 1st contract, the deep pockets and legal advice that National can provide will prove invaluable. I've watched National send MILLIONS of dollars to the local chapters that I've been involved with when it came time to negotiate a contract. DEEP POCKETS, thats the benefit of belonging to ALPA. Also having ALPA medical when I need help dodging the AME minefield, and insurance for loss of license and life insurance is an added bonus.

When it comes time to choose a representing body, ALPA really is a good choice. Your local chapter will be what you make of it. Vote in smart, hard working individuals, and you will get a smart, hard working union. Really, the only beef anyone has with ALPA is the lack of a cohesive bargaining plan for all of its individual chapters. Don't let that turn you off. There are still benefits from ALPA that you can't get anywhere else.

 

[701EV]

Lets get to the important stuff, how are the hotels that SW mgmt puts you in?


701EV

 

[J32driver]

What about if you worked at an airline for 30+ years and they decided to take your pension...."Stomp {your} feet real loud and start applying..." Wait a minute....this HAPPENED! Ya ALPA IS REAL GREAT!!! ... THE BEST

Yeah... the world is a scary place. Do you think being represented by the Teamsters or an in house union would have changed the outcome? I personally don't think it would have made a difference.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

They're OK middle of the road things. Usually airport Hiltons, quite a few Holiday Inn Selects, West Coasts, a few token Marriotts, Sheratons, Double Trees and Hyatts, and a few smatterings of others. I'm sure the main objective is cost that meets our needs, as there doesn't seem to be a consistency among vendor selection, even intracity. Fairly reactive about changing things people gripe about enough, save that OKC Holiday Inn (ugh). Usually only get 10% off food and no beverage (except in SFO, btw); never going to get SWA's 1-2-3, though that would be great. Most have some sort of workout and eating establishment, and normally (with a few exceptions) there are additional eats/drinks within nominal walking distance. Never stay in the dumps, except in XNA which has since changed (I believe).

 

[J32driver]

That's my point. When it comes down to the important stuff....RETIREMENT....ALPA was not there. THey CAN"T help with the important stuff. They are no good! People talk about how they kept the bar up, by a few bucks an hour, but when the comapnies don't want something, you WON"T GET IT...union or not! Those that chatted about keeping the bar up....where are you? Why is YOUR bar so low now? THE BEST

Yep, your right. If the company wants to take something from you while they are in bankruptcy, theres not a lot anyone can do to stop them. Thats been pretty well proven over the last couple of years.

I still think that a Union provides alot of individual protections and tools that simply aren't available to non-union carriers.

 

[J32driver]

There is nothing good about a union....

Oh.. your one of those guys. Can only see the world from one side. Enjoy life with your head stuck in the sand.

I'll admit a union isn't perfect. I'll also readily admit that there are some very good management teams at the non-union carriers. Hell, I'm trying to get hired at JetBlue so I definitely appreciate that. But the management is good because they have to be, or the Unions will show up. I know life has been good at SkyWest and there hasn't been a great need for a union. But, things are changing there. My understanding is its not the utopia it used to be. And now the SkyWest pilot group is going to be used as a sledgehammer on the ASA pilot group. If the SkyWest guys have any desire to stop that process down the road, theres only one thing they can do. Its probably too late to help the ASA guys this time around. But thats no reason not to prepare for the next time around.

All unions arent' bad. All management teams aren't bad either. But when a good management team goes bad, the workers need to protect themeselves. Unfotunately theres only one way to do that.

 

[SSDD]

Join ALPA and cross your fellow employee's picket lines with union's blessings!

WTF?

 

[Tomct]

SSDD....How do you figure? Are you talking about the NWA dealio?

 

[SSDD]

Yeah, I've been a member of a number of unions since 1973, and the Cardinal Sin, the one thing you didn't do was cross a picket line, whether it was the grocery store workers or the funeral directors, you just didn't cross it.

Now the mechanics go on strike and the pilots and flight attendants continue to work, with scab labor, no less. And the rationalization is that it was not in the pilot's best interest to join?

YGTBSM

 

[J32driver]

To late to help ASA this time, they are union...why does it take more than one time?

Because they are now competing head to head with a cheap non union work force. Management has cut ASA off at the knees because the Skywest Guys don't have any means to stop them.

Make no mistake about it, when ASA gets bent over the table, it will be because the SkyWest guys don't have the ability to stand up and fight side by side with the ASA guys. He11, the SkyWest management team has already spelled out their game plan in the Q&A thats floating around this board. Keep 'em seperate and whipsaw 'em. Theres only one way to stop the whipsaw. Organize and make the pilot groups one. Then theres nothing to whipsaw.

THEBEST, do you have the ability to follow a logical thought process? Or are you just SO anti-union that you are blind to the world around you? I'm guessing its option B.

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

How about the MEC at ASA get with SkyW pro-Union people and organize an in house Union to get rolled out in 2006. The longer we wait to organize the longer the Whipsaw will get between the two pilot groups.