This Roger Cohen makes me want to puke

[pilotyip]

Turnover

............I have never been a big ALPA guy but Prater being on there made me realize that the unions did not do a good service to the regionals. I know CJC just started with them but they were in place in the industry and "set the standard" on pay for the regionals. The major ALPA carriers wanted nothing to do with RJ's and Turbo-props so they let the regionals grow with little scope. They in effect made the payrates so the major carriers could afford the operation. The ALPA regionals do not have much better pay than CJC. I remember when I thought a union job meant good pay...not so in aviation......but I survived 6 years in the arena and I would not exchange a minute of it. Flame away...but that is my comment.

No flame but I think you hit the nail on the head. You survived your six years; no one makes a career commitment to a regional life style. Serve your time and move on. That is why the union is basically ineffective when compared to the major carriers. A thought is that they pay check airman a $50,000 override. They hire older guys in their late 40’s early 50’s who will stay at the airline for 10-5 years. They would provide experience, continuity, and a stabilizing force in the airline operations. This would be attractive to many pilots like myself 15 years ago. I was almost in this scenario, less the 50K, at ACA 15 years ago, but the age 60 retirement rules made me turn them down.

 

[J.Otto]

I liked the crash pad looked very well kept. Much nicer than the JO bunk room on the boat

They're livin' it up in there, right Yip? :laugh:

 

[DC8Driver]

Makes me afraid to put my family on some of these regionals....sad....and scary.

Like Southwest has such a great record of keeping things on the runway....LOLOL

 

[DC8Driver]

Agreed, it was created by mainline carriers and pilots allowing it, and in general the public does not care about anything but a cheap ticket.

It would be very nice to see most of that flying back at mainline carriers. A few pilots at some regionals would lose their jobs to furlough, but mainlines would hire more pilots. There are job applications available to those that would lose their jobs..... sounds harsh, but it would be for the best in the long term.

Spoken like a man that has never been on a seniority list. Virtual unemployment insurance?

 

[Rerouted]

I'm still laughing after reading the post on the last page attempting to defend the regional industry. The regionals are driven by greed and prey on an empathetic work force. As long as this "norm" is accepted it will never change. I thought Frontline hit it out of the park. Unfortunately, knowing this industry..nobody will even go looking for the ball. Change won't come until they they can't staff the planes or people won't get on them as paying pax. What do you think the odds are of that happening?

 

[DC8Driver]

You're right. They are all furloughed, and if you weren't you would be making over $30,000 too, because we haven't hired anyone since 5/7/2008.

Why did you take the job? Didn't you know the pay? Why not call ALPA and ask why they always eat their young?

 

[Data]

Brian Wilson.....?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Classic!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm still laughing after reading the post on the last page attempting to defend the regional industry. The regionals are driven by greed and prey on an empathetic work force. As long as this "norm" is accepted it will never change. I thought Frontline hit it out of the park. Unfortunately, knowing this industry..nobody will even go looking for the ball. Change won't come until they they can't staff the planes or people won't get on them as paying pax. What do you think the odds are of that happening?

You don't spend your money in the US market place that uses outsourcing? Why should airline consumers be any different?

 

[WayBack]

What, exactly, did he say that made him a tool? If anything, he didn't defend our industry enough. There are no first officers at ASA earning under $35,000 per year or so. The average is probably closer to $40,000.00 - $45,000.00, since we haven't hired in so long.

Of course, ASA is a "major" airline by definition, and truly cannot be placed in the same bucket as other smaller regional airlines. That is a point that this show didn't make. Not all regionals are the same, and that is an important fact.

It also didn't make the point that regionals do more takeoffs and landings and more legs per day at 52% of the flights for the majors. It is pure mathematics that more accidents will be at the regional level. If most of the flights were the majors, but the accidents were at the regional level, THEN it might mean something.

Remember guys, this show has an axe to grind, and they edit and show what they want the public to see.

This right here is an example of someone trying to make themselves feel better about the company/industry they work for.

Also I'm glad you're very proud that you're considered major airline. Being a major airline, shouldn't you be paid major airline pilot wages? You are doing the majority of their domestic flying, aren't you?
I think we should all note here that ASA is a major airline, not to be confused with little regionals. There are only a few similarities between the ASA the major airline and the little regionals:
- They both fly the same airplane/seat number for the same pay.
- They both have the same hiring requirements.
- Their new hires are cut from the same mold, and the are the same age.
- They both have the same QOL.
But in the end, ASA is a major, and don't you forget it.

 

[LearLove]

Let this Cohen d-bag know how we really feel.

Tel: 202-367-1170, #01 will get you to his extension.

[email protected]

 

[lookin4better]

Spoken like a man that has never been on a seniority list. Virtual unemployment insurance?

Spoken like a man who does not see past next month..

I have been on a senority list, the temporary unemployment as a result of mainline taking back most flying at a regional would be worth it in the long run.

Of course the airlines would actually have to select and interview people to ensure they were getting the right people for the job and not people who think they are entitled to the job because their regional jet was painted in the colors. Its going to get very competitive!

 

[lookin4better]

Don't worry about him, he's a senior MD88 Captain at a Virtual Airline.

I saw that !!! ........absolutely hilarious! Wow are there some dorks out there!!!

 

[e=mc2]

Start simple to fix the airlines:

ATP required to be a Part 121 FO
-500 hours Multi

If you do not meet the above your company has 2 years to replace you.

Watch the wages and benefits improve when nobody shows for class at the current scale. Don't worry ALPA will find a way to lower the bar!

 

[Rerouted]

Make it cheaper...train the homeless to fly..ah..well...

You don't spend your money in the US market place that uses outsourcing? Why should airline consumers be any different?

No arguments here Rez - they do, they will continue to, and those doing the job will continued to receive marginal pay for their efforts. Unions will continue to feel like they are at war with management and the field will be one that will attract fewer and fewer talented people. Maybe one day the government can train the homeless to fly jets as part of a workfare program and the flying public can fly even cheaper. Hang on...I remember my old crash pad...that's already happened but I subsidized the training...hmmmm....

 

[DC8Driver]

Spoken like a man who does not see past next month..

I have been on a senority list, the temporary unemployment as a result of mainline taking back most flying at a regional would be worth it in the long run.

Of course the airlines would actually have to select and interview people to ensure they were getting the right people for the job and not people who think they are entitled to the job because their regional jet was painted in the colors. Its going to get very competitive!

What if your 15 years at a regional making $100,000? I think you don't look past today...............I highly doubt you were on a seniority list unless you didn't make it through training? Bingo!

Do you think "mainlines" are all of a sudden going to pay high wages? Hello! They are going broke now. Get a clue. Not all regionals are Colgan.

 

[skyking]

I missed last nights show about the regional airline industry. Anybody know if or when it might be repeated?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No arguments here Rez - they do, they will continue to, and those doing the job will continued to receive marginal pay for their efforts. Unions will continue to feel like they are at war with management and the field will be one that will attract fewer and fewer talented people. Maybe one day the government can train the homeless to fly jets as part of a workfare program and the flying public can fly even cheaper. Hang on...I remember my old crash pad...that's already happened but I subsidized the training...hmmmm....

Close.... instead of the homeless it will be foreigners on guest worker visa....

The only way to fix the problem is to legislate it.... of course the interest groups including consumers and airline will fight it (safety....)...

So who is going to win on CapHill... ALPA and its 53,000 member group, or the ATA and consumer groups with its 305 million member group (basically the population of the US). Oh don't forget the foreign influence on CapHill as well....

The problem is... globalisation has liberalized the world market all while regulatory law remains withing the state borders.

 

[SLUF4]

it's being repeated, but it's also on the pbs website
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...epage&utm_medium=bigimage&utm_source=bigimage

 

[Metro752]

"Hey Roger, this is Billy from New York. I wanna know something, is that spray on tan, or is it the real deal? You stupid piece of garbage, mmhahahahaha."

 

[lookin4better]

Well, tough break really. It is not the regionals "flying" in the first place. It belongs to someone else..... if it goes away, it goes away. It is simply contract work...It does not belong to "you" and is not "your" flying. I always laugh when pilots at regionals get all huffy that another regional is "taking" their flying..... but when asked if they know where it came from in the first place, they do not even bat an eye. An example is the whining from some pilots about Colgan "taking" flying from Express Jet.... they are doing nothing of the sort. #1 that flying never was theirs(XJT) in the first place, it belongs to Continental Airlines. #2, Continental can do with that flying as they see fit(see #1).

However, its highly unlikely the mainlines will ever get all that flying back, but it does belong to them and can do with it as they see fit for business purposes(i.e. change contracts as they see fit to the least expensive regional for cost reduction reasons.... its just business, nothing personal.) Now it is up to that regional to conduct a safe operation..... but those regionals should be much smaller then they are today and actually feed instead of supplement/ take mainline flying.