This is why the last payrates offered by NJA were "insulting."

[WGFP48]

Union busters are repulsively slick aren't they?

JetProp...you forgot to take your meds today! Or drinking too much of the "koolaid"...

 

[JetProp]

...Union Busters prey on the fears and purses of the companies that hire them...

 

[Diesel]

WGFP48-

Dude learn how to use the quote button.

Hey kids get grampa away from the computer!

 

[JetProp]

.....

 

[TheTruthCMH]

Mr. S has kept his end of the bargain, NJI operates Gulfstream, and only Gulfstream Aircraft.

Ok, here is one for the other side. What about the Citation X that is crewed by NJI on the EJM certificate?

 

[h25b]

My post is not insane if you read it correctly. I am talking about upcoming replacement pilots if the attrition rate continues. o you think a high-time military or regional pilot (RJ Captain with thousandDs of PIC hours) who have other options (low-cost carriers, great Part 91/135 opportunities, etc.) will actually consider NJA at this time given the low pay and antagonistic work environment? Do you really? Or do you think high-time and experienced pilots will flock to NJA in addition to the semi-desparate Beech 1900 or J31 FOs who are looking to improve their salaries beyond food-stamp level? I am not trying to be condescending - I am asking about who would currently consider NJA as a "step up" from their current situation.

Again, you may think flying a Citation X for 10+ hours per day (when it is not broken) on a non 7/7 schedule (newhires probably can't bid it initially) for $32K per year and wait potentially 4-5 years for an upgrade is FANTASTIC, but I don't. And I bet a lot of people would agree with me. Would you personally be attracted by the potential to earn $60K to fly a Hawker 800XP after 5 full years of service? Would you leave your current job for that?

The NJA "package" is not appealing and you won't find the quality, high-time, experienced pilots the fractional owners demand opting for NJA when other opportunities present themselves. That's too bad because NJA had that attraction a few years back and many people left good positions and have been burned by false expectations and a lack of caring for once-loyal employees.

How you can't understand the point is beyond my imagination... The reason NJA can't recruit pilots is because the union has been successful in running people off and no one wants to be a new hire just to end up walking in circles.

But to get back to my original point. How can you in one breath tell us all that anyone willing to go to work there needs their head examined while there are 2200+ pilots on the seniority list at NJA that went to work for those same wages ??? They all knew what the pay was when they accepted employment. You're using a pretty obvious double standard.

And where are these "other options" ??? In case you didn't notice there are thousands of furloughed airline pilots walking the streets and I don't know of many great corporate jobs that get excited about hiring union pilots, especially from NetJets (you know, the company that tried to shut them down..) I guess you live a different world than me, would love to visit sometime.

 

[On Your Six]

This is just another source of mis-information...the NJE pilots are not organized in any shape of form...so its not a matter that needs discussion...NJI is non-union...and will remain so!! Maybe the NJA pilots would like to work at NJI??? they could be stapled to the current seniority list at NJI! On the bottom!!Staple...staple ...staple...WGFP48

From my perspective, there is no logical rationale for the NJI situaiton given the NJE precedent. The NJA fleet and NJI fleet are interchangeable with aircraft swapping for each other on a daily basis. I understand the history - Forstmann and Gulfstream wanted the JV to be non-union and NJI was born. Sure, NJA pilots could have protested back in 96, but I doubt they had the size or confidence to oppose it at the time (pure speculation on my part). The company was still relatively young at the time and the bulk of its growth happened after that time period if memory serves...

NJE complicates the entire situation. The precedent has already been set by NJE - it operates all aircraft including the Gulfstreams and I recently met a newhire FO at NJE at Luton who was hired directly into that aircraft (he considered himself lucky because he could have easily been hired into the Bravo). NJA adds new aircraft types to its program all the time (Sovereign, upcoming Horizon and G150) - so integrating the Gulfstreams into the NJA operation would not be a problem. If I were a corporate raider looking for costs to cut, I would look at the NJI operation and note that all of the infrastructure and overhead could be integrated into the NJA operation - it is redundant. NJA dispatchers could handle NJI flights. The branding is the same - a Falcon 2000 owner who uses a GIVSP (in the event that the Falcon has a mechanical) would not see a perceptible difference in service. Gulfstream owners who get to fly on the BBJ don't see a huge difference in service levels - it is all seen as an "integrated" operation in the minds of the owners.

Clearly this is a very emotional issue. However, there is no logical reason to keep the operations separate (from either an economic or a service-level perspective) given the NJE precedent - regardless of the lack of union in Europe. Having spoken with a number of NJE pilots at Luton and Lisbon recently, unionization may become a reality in Europe too because they are not happy over there either.

 

[On Your Six]

How you can't understand the point is beyond my imagination... The reason NJA can't recruit pilots is because the union has been successful in running people off and no one wants to be a new hire just to end up walking in circles.

But to get back to my original point. How can you in one breath tell us all that anyone willing to go to work there needs their head examined while there are 2200+ pilots on the seniority list at NJA that went to work for those same wages ??? They all knew what the pay was when they accepted employment. You're using a pretty obvious double standard.

And where are these "other options" ??? In case you didn't notice there are thousands of furloughed airline pilots walking the streets and I don't know of many great corporate jobs that get excited about hiring union pilots, especially from NetJets (you know, the company that tried to shut them down..) I guess you live a different world than me, would love to visit sometime.

First off, your point about the "union being successful running people off" makes no sense to me. The extremely low wages and the lack of negotiating progress certainly would impact peoples' decision to stay or completely avoid NJA. Sure, blame the union. Perhaps you didn't see this from the recent AIN story (makes the NJA management look very benevolent):

According to the pilots’ union, International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) Local 1108, NetJets put forth a proposal that “offered less than a $300 per month increase for a five-year captain.” Figures released by the union show the divide that exists between labor and management; the union seeks an annual salary of $114,156 for a fifth-year captain and $74,202 for a fifth-year first officer, equating to the 90th percentile of the NBAA Compensation and Benchmark Survey. The company’s latest proposal is $71,752 and $44,200, respectively, putting the pay in the 10th percentile of the NBAA salary survey.


Gee, with the extra $300 per month you and your family can afford a few extra trips to Taco Bell every month. "Sure Junior, go ahead and Super Size it - I can afford it with my extra $300 buck per month."

As far as your second point about the 2,200 pilots who went to work for those wages, many of them were aware of the contract talks and were convinced that NJA management would respect them and agree to wages commensurate with their experience and commitment to customer service. Many certainly hoped for a lot better and counted on a better contract soon after joining. I know people who joined because they had misguided expectations that the situation would improve considerably.

Additionally, a lot of the pilots were hired after they were furloughed from various airlines or after they retired - I know a few UAL guys who went over to NJA because there weren't a lot of options at the time for high-time pilots. However, now that hiring has increased at Jet Blue, AirTran, SWA, Continental, etc., you will see these experienced pilots leaving. The furloughed pilots will jump ship because NJA is not a compelling place to be any longer. Why would someone want to stay at NJA if the level of disrespect for the pilot group was this transparent?

 

[WGFP48]

...Union Busters prey on the fears and purses of the companies that hire them...

I am not a Union Buster! I work for Net Jets, and I have seen personally what a union can do for a company...I am a concerned pilot...I saw the IAM (who are a bunch of thugs too) destroy a really great airline....and from all apprearances the SU/IBT is trying to do the same here! To suggest that the tactic STFD is a choice is terrible....on the other hand, ridding the company of this cancer called SU/IBT is just about everyone's goal now..if this makes me a "Union Buster" then so be it!!!

 

[gunfyter]

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE


YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED





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