Thinking about regionals from corporate

[RubberDuck]

I will go ahead and pipe in here, I was in your shoes 16months ago, I too was an 8yr charter/corporate/catering/honey pot commando. I would move my hard days off to accommodate trips, all for the sake of keeping my job, and I always took my job with me wherever I went (cell)(phone).
I have to admit that it was a very hard decision, but one that was made easier by a friend that has been in the charter/corporate world for over 40yrs. The one thing that stands out the most that he said is "Charter/Corporate will never change, it doesn’t matter who you work for, you will always have to look over your shoulder." After thinking it over long and hard I came to the conclusion that he was right, I mean in the 8 yrs of charter I had seen 4 different jobs and only one of them was my choice of change, call me unlucky maybe, but talking to other guys out there it seems to be a norm.

Anyway I have been with a Regional now for over a year and I have to admit that it is a completely different way of life, one in which I have learned to enjoy very much. The work is very steady and never ends, and when I go home I am home, I don’t even mind answering the phone anymore.

But as mentioned before you do have some difficult choices to make.

1) Money, Money, Money, Sounds like money won’t be an issue for you and your family, that’s a biggie for most everyone.

2) Location, Location, Location. The last thing you want to do is commute, that is a suckers bet, one in which will put gray hairs on anyone fast.

3) I think a lot of guys at the regional level look at going to the majors, but with everything the way it is no one is going anywhere fast.

4) The top 3 regional airlines is a good question, go back to number one and ask the question again.

5) If you don’t like the regional you can always go back to charter/corporate, They will love to welcome you back!

I hope this helps a little, there really is no solid answers out there, Best thing you can do is try it out for yourself.


Sincerely,

Rubberduck

 

[WileE]

Seriously...

If you know anyone at one of the big fractionals you should go that way. You have the time to get on with any one of them and it sounds like predictability in schedule and stability is what you really want and that's what they offer. Staying at MSP might limit the choices (I don't remember if that's a gateway for Netjets or Citation share) but your QOL will be a lot better. I did my time at a regional and it's not pretty. Odds are you aren't going to be able to work where you live which really, really sucks. 10 or 12 days off a month is a lot more like 5 or 6 real days at home when you have to commute on your own time. Something tells me that your wife won't find that much of an improvement.

 

[cathal]

Hi Speedwings. I can't say I disagree with anyone on this thread. If you live in and love the MSP area, I'd do what ever I could to get on with Mesaba or Pinnacle. As a Mesaba employee, I'd like to recommend Mesaba. Despite our recent negotiations, we still get treated better than Pinnacle people. That's not a flame, it's a sad fact.
We'll have a new contract soon and can expect growth, and Pinnacle's hiring now. If you just want an MSP job, get one with one of us. After a year or so, probably less, with any growth Mesaba or Pinnacle will treat you better schedule-wise than what you're putting up with now.
ALPA charges 1.95% of your salary in dues.
The best schedule will be with the airline that has the most growth (increased seniority, pinnacle) and most favorable work rules (mesaba).
I made about $250 a week at Mesaba my first 6 months, now I take home $340 a week on 3 year FO pay- this will vary depending on insurance plans, etc.
Regional contracts are always evolving. Some are getting better, some aren't. At Mesaba our rallying cry has been "Career contract," one that will allow us to retire with dignity and cash in the bank.
If your goal is just flying and not being a Major pilot, try your best not to commute, but STL, ORD, and MDW would be the easiest airports to get to, just remember that you'll commute forever if you don't get on with Pinnacle or Mesaba.
Don't forget that Southwest is about to explode in a good way. Got 1000 PIC turbine? Apply to them, they'd be worth investigating seriously.
And one last thing. Ask yourself "How much money is enough?" I have met 2 excellent full time CFI's (one gave me my cfi, the other was a co-worker) whose wives brought home the bacon. I don't know what the faculty situation is at St. Cloud, but its another option.
Yours,
Anonymous XJ pilot

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I certainly dont blame you for staying in the area if its best for your family. Wife and family before flying is definitly the rule for me too. I could walk from flying in about 2 minutes myself if the right opportunity arouse, and I wouldnt miss it -....good choice.

Of course staying put is going to limit you severly but it could still very well work.

Maybe keep looking for new work, but in the interm.....if you are really flying as a PIC - that company is screwing you hard. I would NOT sign for that Hawker as PIC for that money, and neither should you. Demand more pay. If you are taking the responsibility - you deserve the pay. "Dont call me till then" I would say.

20-40K more might make that job tolerable until better came along.

Dont let them screw you like that. they can afford it.

Good Luck to ya.

 

[Lear70]

Gulfstream...

Gotta love the way you think man! =)

p.s. The regional lifestyle is equivalent to the fractional lifestyle in terms of pay, benefits, and time off (1st year f/o at a regional being the one exception), and both are WAY better than Charter which is closest to what you described (been there, done all three).

Incidentally, I'd drop this in a heartbeat if I could find a stable Fortune 50 or 100 CA position that made good money... Much better QOL! Have you seriously shopped the purely corporate gigs out there?

 

[TSA Pilot]

This needs to be moved to the You've Got To Be Schittin Me thread.

$40k for a captain? Holy crap.

Yep, Thats FIRST YEAR TURBOPROP CAPTAIN pay.

 

[captainv]

Speedwings,

I've been in your boat, although i did mostly Part 91 on a Lear 25 for a private owner. (i'll refrain from calling it corporate flying - i made that mistake once and got 30 replies debating what kind of flying i was doing, with maybe 5 posts answering my original question.

I have several friends who fly with here at Comair who live in MSP. Hard to get in, but they'll love your stats versus a CFI. mins are 1200/200 i'd imagine competitive is more like 2500 TT, and the type rating will go a long way....

Both Comair and Delta fly to MSP so commuting won't be much trouble. You could always jumpseat on Mesaba as well.

i think it's universally accepted that we currently have the best contract in the industry. still, the first year hurts. Pay is about $250/week during 3 months of training, then $22.50/hr the first year. Second year pay is @ $35/hr on the 50-seat RJ, more on the 70. per diem is $1.65/hour away from base. we're getting more 70-seat jets next year, and we're hiring 250 new pilots. those are firm numbers.

management asked us to take concessions so that we MIGHT be able to bid successfully on 45 new RJs (versus lower cost regionals). We said no thank you. While we might not get those 45 jets, the rumor mill has it that we'll get ACA's 32 328 Dornier jets when they go independent. My personal opinion is don't believe anything any airline tells you unless the airplanes are being delivered.

union dues are 2% of watever your salary is, although you do NOT pay dues the first year - you're on probation so you have to keep your nose clean.

there are a lot of lifers at Comair. it's a great place to work, with a strong pilot group. i myself would like to go to a major if the opportunity presents itself and i think it's a good company. i hear horizon is very much a career place, hardly anybody leaves there. of coursem it takes 12 years to get from the Dash - 8 to the RJ because of it...

>If my goals are to gain seniority and a decent schedule quickly, >what are the top 3 regionals I should pursue?

if comair's growth does slow substantially, seniority and upgrades will take much longer. that said, i was a lineholder in less than 4 months, i fly 4 4-day trips a month, and i usually get two weekends off a month, but i got lucky, i've got 300 guys below me now. i'll make about $22k the first year, at least $36k the second year. pretty good work rules in our contract. scheduling follows the contract. chief pilots are there to help you.

as for others, hard to say. Chatauqua certainly seems poised for big growth, and the recently improved their contract. that might be a place to go and wait for the contract to get better the next round. it's possible ASA will get some healthy growth, although they're mired in renegotiations right now. Mesa will probably continue to grow, but that might be too much like your current job.

get whatever interviews you can and go with your gut. Good luck!

 

[speedwings]

Thank you Captainv, Gulfstream and the rest of you! You guys are great and I really appreciate the advice. I was afraid to even leave my initial post here in Regionals for fear of being flamed big time.

I am in the process of updating the resumes today and I think I will be sending them out next week with a few walk-ins too. Now I just have to figure out how to get days off if I have an interview with any of these companies.

Since you all are great about answering my questions, I have a few more:

At Comair, Pinnacle, or Mesaba, is there a wait to get health ins?

Are these regionals somewhat flexible on interview dates or should I drop everything, call in sick at work, and take any date they give me?

Does my type rating really mean much to a regional? Even if it's in a jet far from a CRJ/ERJ? How do they view 135PIC turbine time?

Does Comair have a commuting policy (I think that's what it's called) that allows you X number of flights to get to your base or not?


Thanks again!

 

[aewanabe]

Hey Speedwings, I don't work for any of the above (I'm CHQ) but I have some friends that do. Don't know about insurance, but I know that Comair has a commuter policy. My unsolicited advice: yes, drop everything and take the first interview date you can. Especially if it's with Comair (the current "brass ring"); a difference in interview dates can mean months longer or shorter swimming in the pool. Also... you might consider the lowly "chicken taco". We don't make as much money as Comair, but with our new contract the money's better, we have some great qol improvements, and bases in STL and PHL that would be easily commutable from MSP. And yes, I would think the type rating helps; at least it would with us. It shows your ability to learn an airplane with complex systems... my understanding is the Hawker is more complex than the ERJ anyway

Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[Turbo]

AEWANABE, How "hard" is the 1500 TT min. at CHQ? With 500 multi and 400 turbine, is there a chance they'd take less?

I'm in a similar boat as SPEEDWINGS, doing the 91/135 thing in Hawkers and King Airs (though I'm not typed yet) for a company that I believe FALCON CAPT used to work for. My pay would essentially be halved, going to first year pay at a regional. But, I think I'd be happier with the lifestyle change. I think the decision of airlines vs. 91/135 ultimately comes down to personality/personal prefererence and where one wants to be 10 or so years down the road. There are true corporate jobs that are undeniably good and airline jobs that are undeniably good. It's all about where you want to be, and if you can enjoy the ride~

turbo

 

[aewanabe]

CHQ Mins

hard to say about the mins, Turbo. When I was hired, and more recently as well, people have had less than the "hard" numbers, but in my class they were all CFIs from the larger Pilot Factories (Pan AM, DCI academy, etc...). I'd go ahead and apply anyway; I do know that CHQ looks favorably on both corporate/charter types and freight dogs, and high multi and turbine time can't hurt. Good luck.

 

[Lear70]

Health Insurance is pretty much standard at every regional. start dates vary from your first day after your checkride to 90 days later...

 

[cathal]

Mesaba has health from day one, Pinnacle you have to wait 90 days after DOH, which is your checkride. Double check that with a Pinnacle person.
Don't know Pinnacle's commuter policy, but Mesaba has a decent one, give yourself 2 Northwest, Pinnacle, Mesaba, or any combo of flights to get there, last one arrives no later than 1 hour before show time. They'll get you on the second one. If they cancel you're off the hook until you can get there.
CVG and STL are easy commutes, if there is such a thing. You'll miss nights at home commuting, guaranteed, and you'll start out commuting at Mesaba.
I think Mesaba would like your credentials a lot, but you might need a "walk in" to get noticed. Put your MN address in BIG BOLD letters, and it might help As an outsider I can't help but notice how much they like their hometown boys and girls here. Despite how much I hate our management, I guess I'm still recommending this place. Life will be normal after our soon to be decided contract.

 

[captainv]

Speedwings,

At Comair, i think we had 30 days to enroll in the health insurance, wasn't a priority for me so i waited till the deadline. the insurance is pretty good, we ended up dropping my wife's coverage (schoolteacher in ATL), Comair offered the same level of coverage, but cheaper than she got through the school district.

Take the earliest possible date they can give you. Drop everything, call in with explosive diarrhea if you have to. are you in a situation where you can't tell your boss? mine wasn't happy about it, but he appreciated the honesty...

>Does my type rating really mean much to a regional? Even if it's in a jet far from a CRJ/ERJ?

sure it does. it says you know how to fly a jet that i guarantee is harder to fly than the RJ, and you'll have no trouble in training.

although times were different, i interviewed in Aug 02, started class in Nov 02. out of 14 in my class, i was tied for lowest time in my class with 1500 hours. the other guy was a Comair academy grad. of those, 1100 were in jets (long story - but yes, i was a lucky ba$tard) with only about 200 PIC in a Lear 25 doing Part 91 flying. my jet time and my type were what got me my job.

Comair does indeed have a commuter policy. others do too, but surprisingly ASA does not. be at the gate for two flights that get in at least 30 minutes before your report time. if you don't get on, call scheduling and just get up there as soon as practical.

as for where to go, get as much info as you can from us. QOL, pay rates, min guarantee, min days off, time on reserve, guesstimate to upgrade, what kind of equipment, what kind of attitude during training, benefits, relationship with management, do the chief pilots fight for you or the company, etc.

growth at Comair may indeed be slowing, but we're hiring 250 FO's next year. That's rock solid, based on the 8 CRJ 700 deliveries. If we get the 32 DoJets or any of the phantom 45 RJs, well, you get the point.

if upgrade/senority are paramount, probably CHQ is the one to look at. our guys like to bash them (lingering sour grapes over losing MCO i imagine), but at least they signed a contract that was better than the one before it. Not many airlines do that anymore. Mesaba's a good group of people, but the possibility of losing the Avro and 40% of its staff is a bit chilling...

but, as always, try to get hired by everyone and pick the one that feels right for you.

 

[banned username 2]

I'm doing the 91/135 thing in Hawkers and King Airs (though I'm not typed yet) for a company that I believe FALCON CAPT used to work for.

Hhmmm... I don't think so, but send me a PM with the name and I'll tell you if you are right...