Thinking about regionals from corporate

[Gulfstream 200]

Lets get this straight...

you are a Hawker Captain and you make less than 40K!!!???

..or are you a type rated SIC who is not set loose as a Captain yet?? some call this the "Co Captain"..its really an SIC.....one idea...maybe get some more time, be a PIC, and hit them up for more money (?) Hawker Captains make a minimum of 60-70K. period.

my guess is that you are in a charter type job doing owner vacations on weekends and charters during the week. Hence no life...I agree 100%...those jobs blow...but maybe it can lead to a better gig for you?

You say corporate hiring is stagnant? where do you get your info?
Look at the Fortune 10 list. I know for a FACT that at least 50% of that list is hiring or has hired pilots in the last 6-12 months. Are you also aware that many corp departments are stocked with vietnam-era guys on the brink of retiring? Have you networked with these companies? called chief pilots and said HI?

Another big misconception is that these jobs are filled by GV,GIV,Global, type experienced guys....they usually are not. Many of these companies are looking for younger guys, long term employees. A few type ratings, a little PIC and International time, 4 year degree (mandatory) and thats about it....of course, an internal reccomendation helps get the interview - but not the job..

looking for a schedule? while most corp gigs dont have the hard schedule the airlines do, most have hard days off a month, schedules known weeks in advance, and enough pilots to go around. Some also start with 4 weeks vacation. I myself average 300 hours/yr. We do heavy Intl. so you are away from the wifey or girlfriend...but no FBO sitting - which I prefer not to do anyways...

Now Im certainly not trying to talk you out of the regional airline thing, but it seems you have paid a lot of the crappy dues that are required to get the experience to land at a fulfilling job. One thing you have to be is mobile. You cant say I want to stay in the MSP area if you are looking hard for a good gig. Nothing wrong with MSP, but you are just severly limiting yourself.

I know you say you are used to making no money so the regional pay wont matter...think about that...is the point of this whole game to never make money? ya know...There ARE flying jobs that pay well AND give you a life!

Large corp flying can be fun. The aircraft are not "sold out" when there is a new CEO or a bad year on wall street. The "rich" owner/charter giuys does this, not the big guys. Is it 100% stable?? no....(enron,global crossing etc) but these days I know a heck of lot more unemployed airline pilots than I do corporate pilots!

anyways...the point? I dont know. I guess each job has its ups and downs, and I hope you find the best thing for you!!.

Good Luck in your search!!

 

[banned username 2]

Good post Gulfstream 200... very accurate.

 

[TSA Pilot]

Trans States is hiring (STL) with talk of opening up a base in ORD right now and you might have your choice of right seat in an RJ ($22 first year) or CQFO on the turboprop ($30 an hour when you fly right seat and $38 when you fly left seat, first year) so you could make close to your $40k. You would have your set schedule and your family would get pass benefits. Also we fly STL-MSP about 4 times a day so you could commute on your own airline (a big plus)!

You have a big decision in front of you. Make sure you weigh all the angles.

TSA Pilot

 

[Jack Schitt]

This needs to be moved to the You've Got To Be Schittin Me thread.

$40k for a captain? Holy crap.

 

[speedwings]

You can say I'm a co-captain. But in my flight dept, we all have types except one (the permanent copilot). I am listed on the insurance as a PIC and I have flown w/non typed guys in the past; both from my company and companies I am rented out to. My company will throw the title captain at me all the time but the unofficial rule is, the guy with the most experience is captain (even the 50 year olds flying with the 60 year olds) and we have 3 guys over 60 in our dept! Every 9 months we meet w/management and they recently told me they're very happy with everything I'm doing but the money is tight for raises. When you add the above frustrations it makes me start to look for another job.

And Gulfstream, you're absolutely right, I am limiting myself staying in this area but I have other reasons for that. The biggest is my wife's career is doing very well here and she just does not want to move. I'd pick her over a flying job any day so here I'll stay. My company can call me a Captain or FO all they want, but I honestly don't think I'll ever see much more than what I make now for the next 5 years or so (aside from the whopping 2% they give).

So please understand, I'm looking at the regionals right now as a POSSIBLE career change because I'm starting to burn out with my present job and that's all. I'm not about to resign from my corporate gig unless I get more info and opinions from friends, pilots, and some of the folks on boards like this.

Let me ask this, if you were in my situation and wanted to find another flying job, what would you do?
I know almost all of the corporate pilots and their flight departments in the area and if they are hiring, it's for a typed & current pilot in an airplane I don't fly or my total time is too low. At 3000 hours TT, increasing at 300 hours a year, that's not going to dramatically change in the future either.

Keep the greasy side down!

 

[RubberDuck]

I will go ahead and pipe in here, I was in your shoes 16months ago, I too was an 8yr charter/corporate/catering/honey pot commando. I would move my hard days off to accommodate trips, all for the sake of keeping my job, and I always took my job with me wherever I went (cell)(phone).
I have to admit that it was a very hard decision, but one that was made easier by a friend that has been in the charter/corporate world for over 40yrs. The one thing that stands out the most that he said is "Charter/Corporate will never change, it doesn’t matter who you work for, you will always have to look over your shoulder." After thinking it over long and hard I came to the conclusion that he was right, I mean in the 8 yrs of charter I had seen 4 different jobs and only one of them was my choice of change, call me unlucky maybe, but talking to other guys out there it seems to be a norm.

Anyway I have been with a Regional now for over a year and I have to admit that it is a completely different way of life, one in which I have learned to enjoy very much. The work is very steady and never ends, and when I go home I am home, I don’t even mind answering the phone anymore.

But as mentioned before you do have some difficult choices to make.

1) Money, Money, Money, Sounds like money won’t be an issue for you and your family, that’s a biggie for most everyone.

2) Location, Location, Location. The last thing you want to do is commute, that is a suckers bet, one in which will put gray hairs on anyone fast.

3) I think a lot of guys at the regional level look at going to the majors, but with everything the way it is no one is going anywhere fast.

4) The top 3 regional airlines is a good question, go back to number one and ask the question again.

5) If you don’t like the regional you can always go back to charter/corporate, They will love to welcome you back!

I hope this helps a little, there really is no solid answers out there, Best thing you can do is try it out for yourself.


Sincerely,

Rubberduck

 

[WileE]

Seriously...

If you know anyone at one of the big fractionals you should go that way. You have the time to get on with any one of them and it sounds like predictability in schedule and stability is what you really want and that's what they offer. Staying at MSP might limit the choices (I don't remember if that's a gateway for Netjets or Citation share) but your QOL will be a lot better. I did my time at a regional and it's not pretty. Odds are you aren't going to be able to work where you live which really, really sucks. 10 or 12 days off a month is a lot more like 5 or 6 real days at home when you have to commute on your own time. Something tells me that your wife won't find that much of an improvement.

 

[cathal]

Hi Speedwings. I can't say I disagree with anyone on this thread. If you live in and love the MSP area, I'd do what ever I could to get on with Mesaba or Pinnacle. As a Mesaba employee, I'd like to recommend Mesaba. Despite our recent negotiations, we still get treated better than Pinnacle people. That's not a flame, it's a sad fact.
We'll have a new contract soon and can expect growth, and Pinnacle's hiring now. If you just want an MSP job, get one with one of us. After a year or so, probably less, with any growth Mesaba or Pinnacle will treat you better schedule-wise than what you're putting up with now.
ALPA charges 1.95% of your salary in dues.
The best schedule will be with the airline that has the most growth (increased seniority, pinnacle) and most favorable work rules (mesaba).
I made about $250 a week at Mesaba my first 6 months, now I take home $340 a week on 3 year FO pay- this will vary depending on insurance plans, etc.
Regional contracts are always evolving. Some are getting better, some aren't. At Mesaba our rallying cry has been "Career contract," one that will allow us to retire with dignity and cash in the bank.
If your goal is just flying and not being a Major pilot, try your best not to commute, but STL, ORD, and MDW would be the easiest airports to get to, just remember that you'll commute forever if you don't get on with Pinnacle or Mesaba.
Don't forget that Southwest is about to explode in a good way. Got 1000 PIC turbine? Apply to them, they'd be worth investigating seriously.
And one last thing. Ask yourself "How much money is enough?" I have met 2 excellent full time CFI's (one gave me my cfi, the other was a co-worker) whose wives brought home the bacon. I don't know what the faculty situation is at St. Cloud, but its another option.
Yours,
Anonymous XJ pilot

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I certainly dont blame you for staying in the area if its best for your family. Wife and family before flying is definitly the rule for me too. I could walk from flying in about 2 minutes myself if the right opportunity arouse, and I wouldnt miss it -....good choice.

Of course staying put is going to limit you severly but it could still very well work.

Maybe keep looking for new work, but in the interm.....if you are really flying as a PIC - that company is screwing you hard. I would NOT sign for that Hawker as PIC for that money, and neither should you. Demand more pay. If you are taking the responsibility - you deserve the pay. "Dont call me till then" I would say.

20-40K more might make that job tolerable until better came along.

Dont let them screw you like that. they can afford it.

Good Luck to ya.

 

[Lear70]

Gulfstream...

Gotta love the way you think man! =)

p.s. The regional lifestyle is equivalent to the fractional lifestyle in terms of pay, benefits, and time off (1st year f/o at a regional being the one exception), and both are WAY better than Charter which is closest to what you described (been there, done all three).

Incidentally, I'd drop this in a heartbeat if I could find a stable Fortune 50 or 100 CA position that made good money... Much better QOL! Have you seriously shopped the purely corporate gigs out there?