Thinking about regionals from corporate

[speedwings]

Hi all. I am a corporate pilot flying 135 and 91 trips and it's really burning me out. I know that you regional drivers get leaned on very hard too but it's the complete lack of ANY schedule that's getting me and my wife. I think even a reserve schedule would be a welcomed change - at least I would know when I MIGHT fly and when I won't.
Right now, I might have a few day trips a week to 15 days straight (with no nights at home and a total of 20 hours logged from it!) and anything in between. If the phone rings, I'm gone and I have no idea when I'm coming home. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have a flying job PIC in a midsized jet, but I'm almost ready to don the orange vest and mix paint next door if I can't move to something different. Corporate jobs are really stagnant in MSP (as they are everywhere else) and I'm not going to move somewhere else in the country for more of the same lifestyle.
I have a few questions for you; bear in mind that I have searched the forum, found nothing and really don't know anything about regional airlines:

What regionals have good commute schedules to/from MSP?

How much of your 17-22/hr pay goes to union dues? What do you get for per diem? What is take-home pay for a new FO nowadays?

How many of you are planning on staying with your regional and making a career out of it? Or don't any of these regionals exist?

If my goals are to gain seniority and a decent schedule quickly, what are the top 3 regionals I should pursue?

Thanks in advance for the advice!

 

[banned username 2]

Hi all. I am a corporate pilot flying 135 and 91 trips and it's really burning me out. I know that you regional drivers get leaned on very hard too but it's the complete lack of ANY schedule that's getting me and my wife.

Sounds like you are flying Charter, not Corporate. Two completely different animals.

 

[speedwings]

It's 80% part 91 and 20% 135. It's the part 91 pop up trips or getting rented out on short notice to another company that's getting to me. So far our charter stuff has been schedule at least 4 days to 2 weeks in advance which is great.

 

[utahpilot]

depends

all good questions, but I think you'll get as many answers as there are personalities. depends on what you want.

for me, I want to eventually be home more than I'm away and make enough money to afford a home, kids, etc. I can tell you that now, in my first year at a regional, I have the total opposite. I'm gone more than I'm home and don't make crap. but, the hope is that it will get better.

What regionals have good commute schedules to/from MSP?

I would guess Mesaba, Pinnacle and maybe someone else has a base there (?), but it would be an easy commute to ORD or any number of other place that regionals base pilots. My opinion-DON"T commute if you can help it. Even with any easy commute (mine is a 1 hour flight to my base) the extra time you are away will add up a ton.

How much of your 17-22/hr pay goes to union dues?

this I don't know, since we have no union at CommutAir.

What do you get for per diem?

I get 1.25/hr. Not much, and not enough. Other regionals have better, upwards of 1.85 or maybe even 2/hr (?)

What is take-home pay for a new FO nowadays?

my checks are usually around 340 bucks a week, which is pathetic. at most regionals, though, you'll go into the higher 20's or 30's for second year pay.

If my goals are to gain seniority and a decent schedule quickly, what are the top 3 regionals I should pursue?

good question. any regional that is growing will equal lots of people under you in little time. If you believe the rumours, that could be Eagle, Chautauqua, or Mesa. Do so searching, though, to find out what pilots at these regionals think of their companies. All claim to be growing by quite a bit soon, but who knows in this game.

the the truth to the saying 'you'll only know if you made the right decision about your career when you retire' has become more and more so for me.

good luck

 

[501261]

It's 80% part 91 and 20% 135. It's the part 91 pop up trips or getting rented out on short notice to another company that's getting to me. So far our charter stuff has been schedule at least 4 days to 2 weeks in advance which is great.

That's not corporate flying! I certainly don't blame you for looking elsewhere, that type of flying (flying the owner's personal toy, whenever he wants to show it off to friends, though he can't really afford the airplane-hence he needs to charter it out) is really crappy.

Either way I wish you good luck in finding something better, but don't discount all corporate flying because of one bad "charter" job.

 

[T-Gates]

If you want a MSP base, we're hiring (Pinnacle) and MSP and DTW is where the new-hires are going. You have a very good shot at geting MSP right off the bat.

Mins are 1500/300

Pay Sucks

Good pilot group though....

 

[speedwings]

I know my job is a bit of an exception to the rule for a corporate pilot and I know that just about ANY other corporate job would be better, but I really just want a schedule. My wife makes good money and after 4 years of corporate flying mega millionairs (and one billionair) I realized that the people in the back are no happier than I am.

I don't need to make 150K+. Just enough to live comfortably and retire early. I want a place where I have seniority and a little sense of job security after putting in some years at a company. Granted, 9/11 showed us that even 15 year guys were vulnerable to furloughs in the airlines. But if one of the airplanes I fly either gets sold or even slows down, I'll get booted because I don't fly the busier airplane type. And that's the problem that never really goes away with corporate flying.

The sad thing is, after 4 years of corporate flying, 1200 hours in jets, type rated part 135 PIC in a Hawker, I don't even make $40K and it sounds like I won't see that next year either. So a move to the regionals wouldn't be that much of a financial shock!

Sorry to whine, but I'm really burning out at this company. Thanks for the tips already guys! I'll start looking at Pinnacle today.

 

[SkywayFO]

If you know anyone at Flight Options, they that. The money is much better and you know your days off a long way out. THe 8 days on is long but you have 7 off and that is great. And you don't have the commute. The days off you will know till you change planes or upgrade. So you can look out a year or more and plan.

 

[Webslinger]

Charter

I dont blame you one bit. Unless you get hired by a fortune 500 company, flying charter can be a tough pill to swallow. I would try for a fortune 500 company that you think is fairly stable- if there is such a thing, or go Regional. At least at the regionals your aircraft wont be sold out from under you just because the company you fly for has a NEW CEO, or has had a bad year on Wallstreet..etc, etc. Tough decision to make.....whatever you do, get out of charter if you can! Just my .02 cents worth.

 

[340drvr]

You might look at air ambulance outfits, too. Most have pretty rigid schedules, 12 hour shifts, something like 6 days, 6 nights (on call at home mostly), 6 off. Don't know what a jet captain might make for salary in MSP, though. It might be on the low side. Just another thought.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Lets get this straight...

you are a Hawker Captain and you make less than 40K!!!???

..or are you a type rated SIC who is not set loose as a Captain yet?? some call this the "Co Captain"..its really an SIC.....one idea...maybe get some more time, be a PIC, and hit them up for more money (?) Hawker Captains make a minimum of 60-70K. period.

my guess is that you are in a charter type job doing owner vacations on weekends and charters during the week. Hence no life...I agree 100%...those jobs blow...but maybe it can lead to a better gig for you?

You say corporate hiring is stagnant? where do you get your info?
Look at the Fortune 10 list. I know for a FACT that at least 50% of that list is hiring or has hired pilots in the last 6-12 months. Are you also aware that many corp departments are stocked with vietnam-era guys on the brink of retiring? Have you networked with these companies? called chief pilots and said HI?

Another big misconception is that these jobs are filled by GV,GIV,Global, type experienced guys....they usually are not. Many of these companies are looking for younger guys, long term employees. A few type ratings, a little PIC and International time, 4 year degree (mandatory) and thats about it....of course, an internal reccomendation helps get the interview - but not the job..

looking for a schedule? while most corp gigs dont have the hard schedule the airlines do, most have hard days off a month, schedules known weeks in advance, and enough pilots to go around. Some also start with 4 weeks vacation. I myself average 300 hours/yr. We do heavy Intl. so you are away from the wifey or girlfriend...but no FBO sitting - which I prefer not to do anyways...

Now Im certainly not trying to talk you out of the regional airline thing, but it seems you have paid a lot of the crappy dues that are required to get the experience to land at a fulfilling job. One thing you have to be is mobile. You cant say I want to stay in the MSP area if you are looking hard for a good gig. Nothing wrong with MSP, but you are just severly limiting yourself.

I know you say you are used to making no money so the regional pay wont matter...think about that...is the point of this whole game to never make money? ya know...There ARE flying jobs that pay well AND give you a life!

Large corp flying can be fun. The aircraft are not "sold out" when there is a new CEO or a bad year on wall street. The "rich" owner/charter giuys does this, not the big guys. Is it 100% stable?? no....(enron,global crossing etc) but these days I know a heck of lot more unemployed airline pilots than I do corporate pilots!

anyways...the point? I dont know. I guess each job has its ups and downs, and I hope you find the best thing for you!!.

Good Luck in your search!!

 

[banned username 2]

Good post Gulfstream 200... very accurate.

 

[TSA Pilot]

Trans States is hiring (STL) with talk of opening up a base in ORD right now and you might have your choice of right seat in an RJ ($22 first year) or CQFO on the turboprop ($30 an hour when you fly right seat and $38 when you fly left seat, first year) so you could make close to your $40k. You would have your set schedule and your family would get pass benefits. Also we fly STL-MSP about 4 times a day so you could commute on your own airline (a big plus)!

You have a big decision in front of you. Make sure you weigh all the angles.

TSA Pilot

 

[Jack Schitt]

This needs to be moved to the You've Got To Be Schittin Me thread.

$40k for a captain? Holy crap.

 

[speedwings]

You can say I'm a co-captain. But in my flight dept, we all have types except one (the permanent copilot). I am listed on the insurance as a PIC and I have flown w/non typed guys in the past; both from my company and companies I am rented out to. My company will throw the title captain at me all the time but the unofficial rule is, the guy with the most experience is captain (even the 50 year olds flying with the 60 year olds) and we have 3 guys over 60 in our dept! Every 9 months we meet w/management and they recently told me they're very happy with everything I'm doing but the money is tight for raises. When you add the above frustrations it makes me start to look for another job.

And Gulfstream, you're absolutely right, I am limiting myself staying in this area but I have other reasons for that. The biggest is my wife's career is doing very well here and she just does not want to move. I'd pick her over a flying job any day so here I'll stay. My company can call me a Captain or FO all they want, but I honestly don't think I'll ever see much more than what I make now for the next 5 years or so (aside from the whopping 2% they give).

So please understand, I'm looking at the regionals right now as a POSSIBLE career change because I'm starting to burn out with my present job and that's all. I'm not about to resign from my corporate gig unless I get more info and opinions from friends, pilots, and some of the folks on boards like this.

Let me ask this, if you were in my situation and wanted to find another flying job, what would you do?
I know almost all of the corporate pilots and their flight departments in the area and if they are hiring, it's for a typed & current pilot in an airplane I don't fly or my total time is too low. At 3000 hours TT, increasing at 300 hours a year, that's not going to dramatically change in the future either.

Keep the greasy side down!