the unfathomable:regional crew attempted takeoff with one engine turning

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I can see the memo now:

"Due to recent incidents, 'Both Engines running.......CONFIRMED' has been added to the before takeoff checklist."

 

[CX880]

I can see the memo now:

"Due to recent incidents, 'Both Engines running.......CONFIRMED' has been added to the before takeoff checklist."

Taxi checklists are written in blood and accidents. No surprise there.

 

[Jetpipeovht]

this morning out of GSO our erj 145 crew flying us en route to O Hare took a takeoff clearance on runway 23. took it on the roll and lined up, applied full power. within seconds the flight spoilers deployed. at the exit, i noticed along with another pax, and a another major airline pilot, that #1 was spooling up. we all heard it. we confronted the crew at the gate. they missed it and they confessed. I called the feds. the insanity stops. this is unfathomable..

the tower said they didn't mention it...go figure...but one thing is clear ..they took the runway, lined up, applied full power to two, and then aborted, the spoilers deployed...


this story may break in the next few days... #1 was not running......

Are you serious? You're a rat, snitch POS, SOB!!

Let us know where you live so we can through you a blanket party!

Rat Bast@rd!

 

[dojetdriver]

What additional training can prevent this from happening again, just wondering what a training department can do.

Probably the SAME thing they do to teach guys not to overfly airports, land on taxi ways, use rudder input during x-wind take off, use rudder during a loss of thrust on a engine, etc.

ouple other things, is this normal ops for this carrier

Yes

Did they have a delay going to ORD? How much fuel are you really saving leaving GSO (can't imagine there are long taxi delays there) on 1-engine versus 2?

It's called fuel conservation. That term doesn't mean just ONE specific flight. At one time, said carrier did about 1400+ departures a day for one of their mainline/legacy customers. Do the math, how much fuel overall gets saved system wide? NOTE, this is NOT opening up the point that it's fuel conservation that caused this problem, JUST SAYING THAT THE CARRIER HAS A FUEL CONSERVATION PROGRAM IN PLACE AND THAT IT'S STANDARD TO TAXI ON ONE ENGINE, PERIOD.

Lets hope they do just get this additional training.

The company has become fire friendly lately, I hope these guys don't get that treatment.

 

[pipejockey]

but I am so pissed because they guys tried to kill me this morning...I'm really pissed

Yeah, they conspired for weeks on the best way to kill YOU!!! The Colgan crash was incompetence. Forgetting to do ONE thing, albeit important like starting the other engine, did not put anyones safety in jeopardy in this scenario. When you set takeoff thrust and you look at the engine gauges to confirm takeoff thrust has been set, and you see one of them is at 0, you calmly pull off the runway, start it up and away you go. No harm no foul. Now get over yourself!

 

[pipejockey]

what I'm for: ridding the low paid profession of loser pilots who denigrate the rest of us and kill people.

Hey genius, check out this thread. This avbug lunatic is also a genius and apparently can do no wrong. You both would be two little peas in a pod.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=133737

 

[Dornier 335]

Frankly, the ERJ is an ergonomic nightmare which set's pilots up to forget to start the engine. I submit that it's nearly as easy to forget to shut off the taxi light when stopped as it is to forget to start an engine.

1. The thrust levers don't lock out when an engine is off.

2. There are 21 switches that look and feel exactly like the engine start switches (though the engine switches are guarded). This tells me that Embraer doesn't think the engine start switches are as important as the heading bug and altitude pre-select knob which look and feel different.

3. The engines are mounted close together on the tail, so there isn't a lot of differential steering needed with one engine running until a lot of thrust is applied.

4. The takeoff config warning does not check that both engines are running.

5. I've never flown the ERJ, but if it's anything like the E170 there is no CAS information that would indicate an engine is not running. Good technique tells you to check the engine instruments, but the checklist (ours anyway) directs you to check the EICAS.

This was a small mistake and nothing more, certainly not something to (literally) alert the media over.

I disagree. If you single engine taxi on No.2, you'll hear the whining sound from the electric hydraulic pump (b/c of nose wheel steering). It is annoying as hell (especially for the pax), but it sure reminds you that something is not ready for takeoff. I wouldn't blame it on the a/c design, this is clearly human fault. I'd like to see the crews' schedule, I suspect fatigue.

 

[Lear70]

Hey genius, check out this thread. This avbug lunatic is also a genius and apparently can do no wrong. You both would be two little peas in a pod.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=133737

Avbug is... unique... and he rubs most people the wrong way. He's rarely wrong about something, although he tends to come across the wrong way about it and pi$$ people off without really trying.

I disagree with him about quite a bit, but as I said, it's Avbug, he's an acquired taste, and you learn to tune him out for the most part and just pick and choose what to get out of his posts.

 

[kmox29]

When you set takeoff thrust and you look at the engine gauges to confirm takeoff thrust has been set, and you see one of them is at 0, you calmly pull off the runway, start it up and away you go. No harm no foul. Now get over yourself!

While I don't agree with calling the FAA (there are other avenues which this can be properly handled through), and especially...ESPECIALLY the media, are you SERIOUS? "No harm, no foul"??? Is that your professional pilot mantra? Downright frightening.

 

[DrewBlows]

I disagree. If you single engine taxi on No.2, you'll hear the whining sound from the electric hydraulic pump (b/c of nose wheel steering). It is annoying as hell (especially for the pax), but it sure reminds you that something is not ready for takeoff. I wouldn't blame it on the a/c design, this is clearly human fault. I'd like to see the crews' schedule, I suspect fatigue.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that forgetting to start an engine is not a human factors issue, but that the design of the aircraft makes it easy to forget in an abnormal situation (fatigued, delayed, etc.).

 

[DrewBlows]

What additional training can prevent this from happening again, just wondering what a training department can do..

A good ASAP program would set the crew up with someone from the training department to sit down and figure out what factors contributed to the mistake. In a non-threatening situation the crew is likely to explain exactly what happened. It may or may not have broader consequences, but the facts could be know. A meeting with a Chief Pilot is not likely to gain any useful information, since the crew would have to consider any disciplinary actions before making a statement.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

alright, just got to asia..let me address this...first;the insults: back at you. myself, another major airline pilot, and four witnesses observed it, heard #1 get started after we exited. the other pilot and myself both agreed this was most incompentent act any airline pilot coud ever do.

ask the families of those marvin winslow took away if they think I'm a DB...

to want to cover up this kind of incompetence,wrecklessness and dereliction of duty has no defense....

I have contacted a journalist....No reply...CNN would love it....it shows the regionals need to weed out the marginal pilots immediately. the public and congress, my wife and kids might disagree with you. shame on you for wanting to sweep an attempted takeoff on one engine under the rug...

these guys knew I meant it and if you think me and the other guy were walking off without addressing them, you're drunk, a fellow loser, or have a twisted view of what is ethically,professionally and morally right. two know crashes, comair and colgan, came from derelict acts and incompentence...sorry it ends now...I won't have the blood of passengers on my hands since I witnessed along with a fellow major aviator this unprecedented act of wreckless endangerment....there is a level when you say, I can't look the other way...today was it...

so, in sum, F U!!! also, I willl see the ASAP , I willl speak to their DO, company CEO and If I find out they lied.... their display of total incompentence makes me think..what happens when they do lose one, what happens in a rapid decom, dual hyd failure, dual elect, shoot single elect...basically they don't deserve to fly airliners...

since we're all still alive, I can say this...but because I had another guy to verify my thoughts,opinions, and reaction...we're in fulll agreement.

they better not lie on that ASAP since they both admitted it to me and another pilot..


i don't mind having dialog on this after all, I did not name any specifics subject to a complete inquiry... no free pass on this one...to excuse this which is what you detractors are doing can only suggest you don't think the guys at comair or colgan did anything wrong or wreckless.

what I'm for: ridding the low paid profession of loser pilots who denigrate the rest of us and kill people. by doing so, drive wages back up...and saving lives...after today, I have seen it all

There is no "w" in reckless, Mav. I would consider a brief primer on spelling, punctuation, and grammar prior to extensive communication with the media. They may be more inclined to take you seriously if they do not jump to the the conclusion that you, in addition to being a histrionic "major airline guy", are not retarded.

 

[crj567]

There is no "w" in reckless, Mav. I would consider a brief primer on spelling, punctuation, and grammar prior to extensive communication with the media. They may be more inclined to take you seriously if they do not jump to the the conclusion that you, in addition to being a histrionic "major airline guy", are retarded.

I would posit that this is the ONLY conclusion which they could arrive at.

-Whether they jump to it, or arrive by logic and deliberate thought; it appears to be the truth about this clown.


-People like "realmanofgenius" (assman,) just reinforce the concept of pilots being a bunch of overpaid morons. I cannot wait to see this rocket scientist on CNN.

 

[realmanofgenius]

you cock$uckers don't want to let this die do you.

pipejockey,
the fear swept through the cabin after they attempted the takeoff...it was no calmly "oh, we have zero thrust" they thought they had full thrust.

after 9/11, stories of drunk pilots, the roller coaster ride we had, dead bodies on snowy nights, it was a gut reaction and one made out of air safety.

there is all this talk about air safety and getting you there as safely as possible, but what about terrorizing the pax before you leave the ground?
yes they were upset. about six in the back that confirmed what we all heard

if you read earlier, I said I emailed a journalist friend....not interested unless people die or there's damage , or official "incident" if we had run off the runway, sure.....if you consider the evolution of marvin renslow's career, I simply thought I was flying with his cousin....that's all

it's water under the damn now....they'll do their mia copa and go on...
i don't give a crap.....

two final points- there's always an A$$hole spellchecker on FI and
a nutjob who wants to threaten violence and reprisals....this was not major airline flying, it was amatuer, private pilot working on his multi flying......put this way...if I ever saw this coX$ucker up front again and I was with the wife and kids...i'd run for the bar....I'll never fly with him again....

 

[tyuwerty]

you cock$uckers don't want to let this die do you.

pipejockey,
the fear swept through the cabin after they attempted the takeoff...it was no calmly "oh, we have zero thrust" they thought they had full thrust.

after 9/11, stories of drunk pilots, the roller coaster ride we had, dead bodies on snowy nights, it was a gut reaction and one made out of air safety.

there is all this talk about air safety and getting you there as safely as possible, but what about terrorizing the pax before you leave the ground?
yes they were upset. about six in the back that confirmed what we all heard

if you read earlier, I said I emailed a journalist friend....not interested unless people die or there's damage , or official "incident" if we had run off the runway, sure.....if you consider the evolution of marvin renslow's career, I simply thought I was flying with his cousin....that's all

it's water under the damn now....they'll do their mia copa and go on...
i don't give a crap.....

two final points- there's always an A$$hole spellchecker on FI and
a nutjob who wants to threaten violence and reprisals....this was not major airline flying, it was amatuer, private pilot working on his multi flying......put this way...if I ever saw this coX$ucker up front again and I was with the wife and kids...i'd run for the bar....I'll never fly with him again....

Oh the HORROR of it all.....

But... you still let them take you to ORD.

 

[Rerouted]

Flame, not flame, it doesn't make a difference - this does happen. I remember 10 years ago when a crew did this at another airline. The captain, who was the pilot flying, aborted thinking he had a flame out and then quickly realized what he had done. ATC then asked him if he needed the trucks after they saw smoke coming from the engine....of course that smoke was from him starting the engine as he taxiied off the runway. Somehow he managed to get away with it. Does this indicate a bad pilot or a bad day?

A year later he took off knowing he had a flat right main tire. When he landed he not only wiped out the other tire on that side of the plane but managed to take both tires off the rim. I was deadheading on that flight and talked to him afterwards. He openly admitted what he did and acted as if it were an everyday event. Scary? Yes. So where is he now? Flying for a major. This is fact, not flame. These things happen out there. Nobody including me turned him in...maybe that was the bigger sin.

 

[ackattacker]

you cock$uckers don't want to let this die do you.

You show your true character more and more with every post.

This is YOUR thread that YOU started looking for some sort of moral support. Don't like what you're hearing? Not feeling the love? Good! I'd rather fly with the crew who made that mistake and owned up to it than you, Dr. Skygod.

 

[Dan Roman]

You show your true character more and more with every post.

This is YOUR thread that YOU started looking for some sort of moral support. Don't like what you're hearing? Not feeling the love? Good! I'd rather fly with the crew who made that mistake and owned up to it than you, Dr. Skygod.

A lot of truth to your statement. The fact that Realman seems to think he is right and everyone else is a c&%ksucker rather than be open to the fact that perhaps he could have handled it better would indicate he may be more likely than the crew he is bashing to arrogantly cause an accident.

 

[Lynxman]

I just wish I woulda known that I was on a forum with a bunch of c&%ksuckers. Man now that I think about it this place is pretty gay.

 

[hou757]

You show your true character more and more with every post.

This is YOUR thread that YOU started looking for some sort of moral support. Don't like what you're hearing? Not feeling the love? Good! I'd rather fly with the crew who made that mistake and owned up to it than you, Dr. Skygod.

Excellent post! I too would fly with that crew any day before I rode with "genius"