The Rogue and the Professional

[Jmajoris]

Dr Tony Kern, a Lieutenant Colonel in the US AirForce, has raised the bar for all of us. In 1997 he wrote "Redefining Airmanship" followed by "Flight Discipline" in 1998, and "Darker Shades of Blue" in 1999. All 3 books as well as the "Controlling Pilot Error" series of 12 books in which he is a contributing editor, deal with improving flight safety. We would be wise to learn from him.


Being a pro has nothing to do with your job. It has everything to do with your attitude.

 

[sky37d]

Dr Tony Kern, a Lieutenant Colonel in the US AirForce, has raised the bar for all of us. In 1997 he wrote "Redefining Airmanship" followed by "Flight Discipline" in 1998, and "Darker Shades of Blue" in 1999. All 3 books as well as the "Controlling Pilot Error" series of 12 books in which he is a contributing editor, deal with improving flight safety. We would be wise to learn from him.


Being a pro has nothing to do with your job. It has everything to do with your attitude.

Thanks, I'll find his books.

I do operate like a pro. I use my checklists, everytime. I brief my passenger/co-pilot. I tell her I love her.
Then I make sure her seat belt is on, her seat is locked into position. She locks the door. She has her responsibilities, and I have mine, to land safely, every time.

 

[91100 100 set]

The leading post in this thread was excellant. I have known a few "rogues" during my career, and I'll certainly encounter more. As an FO (for the better part of 6 years now, against my wishes, of course), I do what I can, but as always, the captain sets the tone and I try my best to be a chameleon and not let these rogues damage me, my career, my company's ability to provide me with an income, the airplane, the people in the back, or anything else (maybe in that particular order, maybe not, depending on my own mood).

Just a few weeks ago, I was sitting in recurrent, and we were on a break from class, sitting around, shooting the breeze. The one guy from my class was telling a story about how some captain and him flew into an uncontrolled field a few months ago. Overflew the field at 800', entered midfield downwind, and "cranked it around", still "banking and turning final, like, at 200 feet". He said it was awesome. I made a weird face and said, "well, thats all good fun and sporty flying, but they don't pay us to fly these planes around to have fun and do stuff like that with 50 people in the back". Kinda shut him down, but it pissed me off, and I hope it made an impression, whether he thinks I'm a jerk or not.

 

[redd]

Just my opinion...but,

Isn't Tony Kern the S. O. B. that single handedly shut down the airtanker industry last year, and used the trajedy of fallen airmen and the felled carcus of this segment of aviation as a stepping stone only to further his own career ambitions?

I don't think you guys have the whole story on this man, or his competenacy on evaluating airmen.

I think he falls victim to being knowledgable and personally experienced in a small slice of the aviation industry and lacks the broader perspective of what it takes to be an aviator in all realms. I think a large motivator in what he does lies in the realm of the political arena and self advancement.

There are a good number of extreemly well qualified pilots that are currently out of work due to this man, and I think they have some legitimate reasons as to why they blame him for throwing them out of a job. From what I've heard and read of what the airtanker pilots have to say, I would tend to agree with them, it sounds like this guy had an ulterior motive and an axe to grind. Some of the stuff he says sounds good on the surface, but I'm not so sure that it is built on a foundation of a true perspective or motivation.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Isn't Tony Kern the S. O. B. that single handedly shut down the airtanker industry last year, and used the trajedy of fallen airmen and the felled carcus of this segment of aviation as a stepping stone only to further his own career ambitions?

I don't think you guys have the whole story on this man, or his competenacy on evaluating airmen.

I think he falls victim to being knowledgable and personally experienced in a small slice of the aviation industry and lacks the broader perspective of what it takes to be an aviator in all realms. I think a large motivator in what he does lies in the realm of the political arena and self advancement.

There are a good number of extreemly well qualified pilots that are currently out of work due to this man, and I think they have some legitimate reasons as to why they blame him for throwing them out of a job. From what I've heard and read of what the airtanker pilots have to say, I would tend to agree with them, it sounds like this guy had an ulterior motive and an axe to grind. Some of the stuff he says sounds good on the surface, but I'm not so sure that it is built on a foundation of a true perspective or motivation.

Well yes, your opinion... here is not my opinion. Rather a link....

But before you go, I'm not sure what the connection is, except the guy writes about professionalism and quality airmanship and then applies those principles to the aging air tanker industry and says there are major problems. I mean when one watches a [C-130?] wings rip off on CNN, I can see where Kern is coming from. I don't know Kern. He could a great guy or a major tool box. Being brought up Navy, I wouldn't be suprised if Kern takes his family photo in an ascot... . The point is I've had the opportunity to read Redefining Airmanship, The Rogue Pilot and Flight Discipline. The books seem to stand on their own regardless of his involvement in the Air Tanker biz.....

...or in HTML form:

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:HGxbwgcEm5kJ:www.hallassoc.net/BRP_120502.pdf+%22Jim+Hall%22+Blue+Ribbon+Commission+Airtankers+Forest&hl=en&ie=UTF_8
In 2004 some substantial changes were made. Thanks to the fearless leadership of former Air Force Lt.Col. Tony Kern (who had headed up the Forest Service Aviation division for several years prior), 33 of the most dangerous airtankers were grounded. A political firestorm instantly replaced the forest-based firestorms of fall and Kern found himself under massive attack from the airtanker companies, senators, congressmen, and others who simply did not understand the seriousness of the situation. Regarding Kern's courage inconsistent with the usual bureaucratic niggling, see: http://www.montanaforum.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=161


​

 

[redd]

Yes, he may be a tool, which may influence his viewpoints and his perspectives. You quoted an article that said:

33 of the most dangerous airtankers were grounded.

I don't agree with this writers observation either, I don't think he had all the facts, only two types of airplanes crashed and had the problems, C130's and PB4Y's, other airworthy tankers were grounded as well.

Here's a recent article about the aftermath of Kerns decisions:


Most of fleet grounded as season nears; replacement plan founders
07:37 AM PDT on Wednesday, May 25, 2005


By RICHARD BROOKS / The Press-Enterprise

With most of the nation's big air tankers grounded by safety concerns for the second straight year, firefighting officials now have more bad news: They won't meet their previous goal of modernizing the aging fleet by 2008.

The U.S. Forest Service is concentrating on how to safely return to duty as many planes as possible, and little progress has been made on a long-range plan, issued in 2003, that called for a fleet of 30 to 35 jet-powered air tankers and 15 to 20 large helicopters by 2008 to fight fires nationwide.

"I can't put a time on it," said Larry Brosnan, the Forest Service's top-ranking aviation official.

"Our focus ... is on the upcoming season," Brosnan said. "We take this one season at a time."

This season, only 10 air tankers are considered safe enough to fly, down from 33 that were grounded at the beginning of 2004. The remaining 23 planes are parked indefinitely.

Brosnan disagrees with tanker pilots who argue that grounding so many planes is putting lives and property at risk if there is a repeat of the devastating wildfires of 2003 that claimed seven lives and destroyed about 1,400 homes in San Bernardino County.

"We feel like we have adequate resources," Brosnan said by phone from Washington, D.C.

This year the service is relying on the 10 tankers that have met new safety requirements, six heli-tankers, 24 medium helicopters and eight military C-130 fire bombers.

Pilots Are Skeptical

But that won't be enough if the reduced fleet is faced with a severe fire season, tanker pilots contend.

"If we get (a) season like we had in Southern California at the end of 2003 ... we're going to lose property that we would have been able to save with the aircraft we had a few years ago," said pilot Walt Darran of the Associated Airtanker Pilots' safety committee.

Report Was Critical

The Forest Service's large air tanker program became dysfunctional after the National Transportation Safety Board released a stunning report in April 2004 on three tanker crashes.

Among the findings: Metal fatigue caused the wings to snap off three aging tankers in 1994 and 2002, killing eight crew members, and the Forest Service had no method of ensuring the airworthiness of the rest of the fleet, the report said.

Tanker pilots say it wasn't necessary to cancel the contracts for any of the 33 tankers scheduled to fly during 2004.

The types of planes that fell apart -- C-130A Hercules and PB4Y Privateers -- already had been permanently grounded, Darran said, and the remaining types of planes have never suffered a structural failure.

Darran said he would prefer to have all of the idled planes returned to service, but equipped with sensors that can monitor the aerodynamic stresses and whether any cracks are developing.

For a long-term fix that would meet modernization goals, the Forest Service is counting on the tanker industry to offer solutions and to design and develop a new generation of tankers. The service does not own any tankers, nor does it fund upgrades. It relies on contractors to supply, maintain and fly the planes during fire season, and propose improvements.

The possibilities include: new planes designed specifically for firefighting, existing passenger planes or cargo haulers that can be converted to drop fire retardant, or acquiring additional Lockheed P-3 Orions, which have passed all the safety tests and comprise seven of the 10 tankers of the current fleet.

Only three types of large planes have begun formal testing to become the next generation of tankers. Among them: a wide-body DC-10 that's being converted in Victorville.

Industry in Turmoil

The air-tanker industry has been in turmoil since the Forest Service grounded the 33 large air tankers while airworthiness requirements were revamped. Two firms that own and operate tankers under contract to the Forest Service have gone out of business.

Industry spokesman Bill Broadwell says most of the six remaining large air-tanker companies are hanging on by a thread as they face the possibility of a second season without any income from the Forest Service, the sole customer for most.

At age 65, tanker owner Gary Garrett is throwing in the towel.

"This has put me out of business," the Tucson-based pilot said of his inability to secure a federal contract for his three Douglas DC-4s. "We haven't had a paycheck in a year."

The big winner this year is Aero Union, a Montana-based firm whose seven Lockheed P-3 Orions are the newest and -- with a 3,000-gallon capacity -- among the largest retardant-haulers in the fleet.

Powered by four jet turbo-prop engines, the converted submarine hunters were originally delivered to the Navy during the 1960s.

This season, the P-3s are being augmented by two older Lockheed P-2V Neptunes and a Douglas DC-7 that have been specially instrumented to collect research data.

The Next Generation

In recent years, everything from blimps to converted Russian Il-76 jet transports have been suggested as possible air tankers. The Russian jet has been touted by Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Huntington Beach.

Among the most novel ideas to be rejected: Dropping fire retardant from a tank tethered among four helicopters that would maneuver a bit like tug boats guiding an ocean liner.

"We don't want to discourage (novel concepts). But we look at it from a safety standpoint and an effectiveness standpoint," said Scott Fisher, chairman of the National Interagency Airtanker Board.

 

[redd]

And here’s more, it's an excerpt by someone in the tanker industry commenting on the article from an airtanker's web board:

[“For a long-term fix that would meet modernization goals, the Forest Service is counting on the tanker industry to offer solutions and to design and develop a new generation of tankers. The service does not own any tankers, nor does it fund upgrades. It relies on contractors to supply, maintain and fly the planes during fire season, and propose improvements.”

O.K. Hmmm let’s think about this, let me owner of “ACE Air Tankers Inc.” go out and spend a billion dollars on an airplane out of my own pocket and develop an air tanker for the Forest Service. So I can then Hope that they will contract it, and then fight with them on how much they are going to pay for daily availability, hourly cost etc. Then I have to Hope that they will sign a long-term contract with my company so that maybe in 20 years I might have my development, building, flight testing, and certification cost paid off. Then maybe I could give the employees a pay raise!

This is never going to work and we are going to be riding the merry-go–round for a long time. Unless there are federal dollars involved, we will be doing business as usual. So maybe the Forest Service needs to take some lessons from some other fire fighting agencies, let’s say the CDF, or Canadian provinces, or the Europeans. I notice that those agencies had the fore-sight to go out and develop newer designs, or at least improve on proven ones.]

---------

I think that guy really sums it up.

What Tony Kern did decimated the industry, threw it into chaos and threw gasoline on the fire. Ironically, the aircraft he grounded are one by one being re-released back into duty, the P3’s and the P2v’s and others, but his short sighted mandates have left a wake of destroyed companies and careers. There could have been other ways to deal with structural problems with aging WW2 aircraft (the C130’s and PB4Y’s are still grounded from service), and not disrupt the whole industry in the process.

When I look at all sides of the issue, it makes me question his judgment and his motives.


I'm not a tanker pilot, but as an outside observer, it really chapps my hide to see a governmental figurehead decimate a vital segment of the aviation industry either because he hates air tanker pilots, or he wants to improve his career status. He has since left his position in the USFS and has taken a higher governmental job.

 

[TurboS7]

Shall we ask the people who just lost their houses in California how they feel about Tony Kern????Right now I am really pissed off at Air Force people, I have lost a lot of respect that I used to have for that organization. Thank God for the Marines and the Navy, I wouldn't depend on the Air Force to get anything accomplished during a war.

 

[Crimson03]

Going back to earlier posts. If pilots are true 'professionals' then as professionals should'nt pilots be excluded from collective bargaining, unionization, and such under federal labor law?

 

[TurboS7]

Careful or we will all be working for 20K or less.

 

[TurboS7]

Baseball players are professionals.

 

[Crimson03]

It's been awhile since I studied that stuff. I might be confusing the professional exemption from overtime pay with union stuff.

 

[Catbird]

Right on target Redd. Kern's agenda and his pontification from his appointed throne is disgusting. Pricks like Kern are a dime a dozen these days. Self proclaimed experts and regurgitations like Rez O. ready to crap the next expert observation from upon high. Rez O. has been sucking a** at Alpa National for years. He and Kern probably had a lunch date in Georgetown to reinforce each others ego's before takeing the Limo to the Bath House for a in depth research project.

 

[LJDRVR]

I've read all of Dr. Kern's books and several of his papers, Again and again. In addition, I've had the pleasure of meeting him and hearing several of his presentations. His work has altered the course of my career and how I approach aviation. (In a good way)

Redd and Catbird, read this carefully:

Tony Kern is one of the most humble, self-efacing people I have ever met. His transformation from just another pilot to being a warrior for safety took place not for self promotion or profit, but because he was sick and tired of going to the funerals of fellow aviators and friends. Tony has done what no other knee-jerk government agency has ever bothered to do, specifically develop an airmanship model that gives aviators a road map to self-improvement. Dr. Kern researched some of the most succesful aviators in our history, identified common traits and for the first time actually defined what being a good airman means.

This guy is personally responsible for AETC's first CRM program, impacting the ethos and development of thousands of Air Force pilots. His model for airmanship is now in use as the government-mandated human factors curriculem in several countries and Air Forces, he was the first one of us to publicly call rogues what they are and suggest strategies for dealing with them. The ground-breaking work he's involved with now will change the face of how our industry deals with error.

What have you two done for your fellow pilot? Who are you to critisize the guy who has done more to further the cause of error management and human factors since James Reason?

Here's my suggestion. Read his books. Heck, I'll let you borrow mine. So, have you got the guts to take me up on it, put your money where your mouth is? Come back here and have an intelligent discussion on the state of professional aviation in regards to flight discipline and how we could actually reduce the accident rate while at the same time reclaiming our profession from the bean-counters?

Or is it easier to critisize based on your misinformed opinions and/or what your friends told you?

 

[redd]

LJDVR,

Hey, if I was an ex-airforce airman, I would probably feel the same way about one of my own, regardless of what he's doing now.

What he did last year concerns me, what he did 10 years ago, or what kind of good ole boy he is, doesn't concern me. But what he has done recently, really tempers my opinion of him now.

What have you two done for your fellow pilot? Who are you to critisize the guy who has done more to further the cause of error management and human factors since James Reason?

What did he do to help air tanker pilots? He is a bad administrator. There are many other things that could have been done to strengthen the national aerial firefighting program. He took an axe and felled the tree, and then walked away. It's easy to tear something down that took years to build, it's quite something else to go the distance and actually fix and build something great.

The airmen that I've known and met that actually fly airtankers are some of the most highly skilled and safety conscious pilots that there are. They fly into high hazard conditions at low levels with hundreds to thousands of pounds of cargo that they jetison at low levels flying both light and heavy aircraft. Two tankers crashed in 2002 due to structural problems, so the answer is to shut down the industry, yeah, that makes real sense.

They didn't deserve this, and they were cheated out of their livliehood.

I live in the west, and right now there are fires raging north of town, I for one am grateful for all the airborne help we have this year.

 

[Crimson03]

Catbird has a valid point, Kern's stuff reeks of modern unsubstantiated sociology nonsense. Where do the rogues like Otto Lilenthal and the brothers Wright fit in. Oh I forgot we figured everything out and there is no need for independant thought anymore. I guess if you strictly adhere to checklists and SOP you can be an excellent airBus driver- provided you keep the computer happy.

 

[Axel]

Where do the rogues like Otto Lilenthal and the brothers Wright fit in.

There is a difference between a pathfinder and a renegade. Although by necessity they may share the same attributes, the difference lies in the application of those attributes. Pathfinders change the world. Renegades hurt people.

 

[PCL_128]

Catbird has a valid point, Kern's stuff reeks of modern unsubstantiated sociology nonsense. Where do the rogues like Otto Lilenthal and the brothers Wright fit in. Oh I forgot we figured everything out and there is no need for independant thought anymore. I guess if you strictly adhere to checklists and SOP you can be an excellent airBus driver- provided you keep the computer happy.

Please stay in your current position of "househusband" and don't go anywhere near an airliner.

 

[Crimson03]

Please stay in your current position of "househusband" and don't go anywhere near an airliner.

LOL- no problem there, that job is all yours.

Sorry I just find stuff like Kern's really annoying on two points. The first is that for better or worse his approach discourages independant thought.
Secondly while the gold standard for pysch research, double blind random studies probably aren't possibly there are likely well worn personality scales that measure for what they are worth both rogue and professional attitudes. The proper thing would be to a have a few thousand older pilots take said personality scales and compare the results with accident/violation histories. Then give the same tests to young pilots and check in 5, 10 and 20 years and see who has had accidents/violations. Without doing that it all that kern writes is just one person's inflated drawn out opinion.
Our beloved BF Skinner (FOI author) has been discredited, he wrote opinion dressed up as fact as well. But we still have to learn and recite his nonsense, hopefully the FOI's simply make CFI candidates realize that not everyone learns the way they do- add a little independant thought and most people can do an acceptable job of instructing.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Back on track, the intent of the post was to bring awareness between pilots who stick to procedure and others who disregard it. I think we can all agree on that.....

Kerns book was listed as further reading for those who held an interest.

Free Will reigns.......