The Rogue and the Professional

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Going back to earlier posts. If pilots are true 'professionals' then as professionals should'nt pilots be excluded from collective bargaining, unionization, and such under federal labor law?

How do you want pilots to percieve themselves?


Blue collar hourly labor, like factory and hotel workers?

Or

Like Doctors and architechts?



We are unique in that we fit into blue collar labor, but at the same time our jobs are directly tied to human health.

When you see a sign nailed to a telephone pole that reads "Professional House Painter", what is really applicable? Is a professional painter in a higher class than a "Quality Landscaper"


When working people provide a service to others in which failure can result in death, the definition of professionals is they do not need to be policed! They can be trusted and therefore respected, and ultimately, theorectically, able to command a higher salary or wage.

 

[TurboS7]

I have had a doctor cut my body three time and I have had 2 root canals. Interesting enough they got the jazz music going smiled and went at it. I thought that we were at a party. Afterwards the doc explained to me the secret of successful surgery is getting the brain to relax and to have a loose upbeat atmoshere in the room. He told me I hope that is the kind of atmoshere that you have in your airliner. If people are all uptight about whether they are going to miss something on a checklist, they will screw up-real bad- and they will kill people. I agree with Kern to a point, but when the checklist becomes the objective and not flying the airplane we go of very diffrent paths. I don't doupt that the smoke bombers crank up the rock and roll befoe they make a run, it makes them relax. Same thing goes for baseball, the dugout that is a fun dugout is a winning dugout, and that is the way it is.

 

[Jmajoris]

You're missing exactly what Dr. Kern is talking about. Logic. Logic is the foundation of sound judgement, which of course is the base of aviation safety. This isn't about someone losing there house or job, it's about grounding a fleet of unsafe aircraft. How many sets of wings have to fold before you agree with him? When was the last time that you participated in a metal fatigue study of aging aircraft?

Your comments, and many of the others here are emotionally driven. It's logic that we need to make good sound decisions, not emotion. You may want to read some of his books with an open mind. Perhaps then you will understand his devotion to aviation safety....

LJDVR,

Hey, if I was an ex-airforce airman, I would probably feel the same way about one of my own, regardless of what he's doing now.

What he did last year concerns me, what he did 10 years ago, or what kind of good ole boy he is, doesn't concern me. But what he has done recently, really tempers my opinion of him now.



What did he do to help air tanker pilots? He is a bad administrator. There are many other things that could have been done to strengthen the national aerial firefighting program. He took an axe and felled the tree, and then walked away. It's easy to tear something down that took years to build, it's quite something else to go the distance and actually fix and build something great.

The airmen that I've known and met that actually fly airtankers are some of the most highly skilled and safety conscious pilots that there are. They fly into high hazard conditions at low levels with hundreds to thousands of pounds of cargo that they jetison at low levels flying both light and heavy aircraft. Two tankers crashed in 2002 due to structural problems, so the answer is to shut down the industry, yeah, that makes real sense.

They didn't deserve this, and they were cheated out of their livliehood.

I live in the west, and right now there are fires raging north of town, I for one am grateful for all the airborne help we have this year.

 

[redd]

Logic is the foundation of sound judgement...it's about grounding a fleet of unsafe aircraft

Ummm...I think we've already mentioned that the 33 "grounded" aircraft were and are proven to be safe, and are and have been released back into duty one by one, meaning that they were grounded rashly and in error....The only two aircraft that crashed (due to metal fatigue, etc) were already grounded (from service)way before that...Logic huh? Comprende?

 

[TurboS7]

Kern failed to note that aircraft have to be looked at on an individual basis with logic and reasoning. It seems that grounding a whole fleet is an emotional decision which cost some great flyers some jobs. Kern can write all he wants but applying it in a real life scenario is a complete diffrent thing.

 

[DashTrash400]

Congrats on your 2000th post Turbo

 

[Jmajoris]

So 2 panels of experts recommend grounding the entire fleet, and you know better? The only 2 that crashed? There was another in 84. See a pattern here?

Ummm...I think we've already mentioned that the 33 "grounded" aircraft were and are proven to be safe, and are and have been released back into duty one by one, meaning that they were grounded rashly and in error....The only two aircraft that crashed (due to metal fatigue, etc) were already grounded (from service)way before that...Logic huh? Comprende?

 

[Jmajoris]

You folks keep talking about pilots losing there jobs. That does not enter into the decision making process. Furthermore, a second report from the NTSB backed up the initial report. So how many pilots need to die before you can agree with 2 panels of aviation experts?

Kern failed to note that aircraft have to be looked at on an individual basis with logic and reasoning. It seems that grounding a whole fleet is an emotional decision which cost some great flyers some jobs. Kern can write all he wants but applying it in a real life scenario is a complete diffrent thing.

 

[TurboS7]

Thankyou Dashtrash I didn't even notice that, sign of old age.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I have had a doctor cut my body three time and I have had 2 root canals. Interesting enough they got the jazz music going smiled and went at it. I thought that we were at a party. Afterwards the doc explained to me the secret of successful surgery is getting the brain to relax and to have a loose upbeat atmoshere in the room. He told me I hope that is the kind of atmoshere that you have in your airliner. If people are all uptight about whether they are going to miss something on a checklist, they will screw up-real bad- and they will kill people. I agree with Kern to a point, but when the checklist becomes the objective and not flying the airplane we go of very diffrent paths. I don't doupt that the smoke bombers crank up the rock and roll befoe they make a run, it makes them relax. Same thing goes for baseball, the dugout that is a fun dugout is a winning dugout, and that is the way it is.

Excellent point.

It is easy to understand how one can believe that professional is not relaxed or 'by the book' is uptight.

Perhaps it depends on the person.

The doctor above didn't compromise his professionalism or high level of skill. What he did was create a relaxed and unguarded environment.

We have all flown with the guy that points out every little fault or deviation from the book. I hate flying with these guys becuase I'm on guard the whole time waiting for the next comment. Plus what his he focused on? My job or his job?

The worst example is when one pilot has to be focused on ensuring the other is flying by the book, becuase he isn't flying by the book. This is why is it important that both pilots agree, in general, to operate by the book.

When the flightdeck culture is relaxed, a crews performance is higher and it yields better results. Combined with the choice to fly by the book, this becomes the ultimate job satisfaction; We did it right and we had fun doing it.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong....

 

[TurboS7]

I think you are right on. The desire is to fly as close to the book as possible yet to be practical. I see the book as guidelines that allow a little deviation ie +-100feet. When two pilot agree then the flying can become a lot of fun. A perfect example, our company FOM says all landings should be within the first 1500 feet of the runway, the FAA says within the touchdown zone which is 3000 feet of a 10000 foot runway. Our objective is the get a very smooth landing with the first 1500 feet without dropping below the glidepath or VASI. It can be done but you have to work at it.

 

[Lead Sled]

Flying by the book...

The worst example is when one pilot has to be focused on ensuring the other is flying by the book, becuase he isn't flying by the book. This is why is it important that both pilots agree, in general, to operate by the book.

It's sad when you run across guys, who claim to be "pros", that haven't even read the book let along try to fly by it. They're out there.

'Sled

 

[JediNein]

So does anyone have a copy or two of Tony's book, "Darker Shades of Blue" for sale? I could use 2-4 copies.

Thanks!

 

[moonlight]

Ole' Kern must be pretty proud of "Darker Shades of Blue"...Amazon is selling it for $200!! The cheapest I found it (after a rather quick search) was $87, for a used copy. Good grief.

 

[JediNein]

Some of the Amazon booksellers have inflated opinions of their products. Now if the copy was autographed, that's a different story.

 

[avbug]

Don't kid yourself about T Kern. I've spent time with the man too, and humble...no. Deeply interested in his fellow mankind? That's for someone else to say, but the damage he's done in the interest of advancing his own career will continue to be counted for many, many years. Forget those without jobs. Forget companies ruined. Forget crews unprotected on the ground. Forget the burned out houses and property lost. All trivial stuff. But don't forget the lies, the deceit, and the fact that he build himself ontop of all of these things.

Did he do good things? His books and his talk are psychobabble. I've read them. Even contributed material for him to use, early on. But I soon found that his work was more flash than substance, and I found little worth in them.

The first time he met with folks from the tanker industry, I was there. I spent quite a bit of time talking with him, had lunch with him after. I told him then that what he had to say wasn't particularly accurate or applicable. Nicely presented...but best left in the classroom where theory doesn't have to meet the rubber of the road. I wasn't the only one. I believe he was a little taken back that his audience didn't fall at his feet.

So far as committees and panels that backed him up...the poster who said that clearly hasn't read the reports, and doesn't know what occured. It was political and it was very, very wrong.

I wouldn't go out of my way to vomit on T Kern, let alone shake his hand ever again.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

avbug-

I am sure in some areas of your life you are a complete tool and there are people out there that wouldn't vomit on you if you were on fire. There are people that feel the same about me....

Regardless of Kern's political performance his books are good material... especially for low time aviators.....

Save your bile for the right topic.....

 

[avbug]

His books are crap. Monotonous cacophony, drivel and drip. Much like the man.

 

[cezzna]

Unbridled pompous professionalism is truly ugly. I've seen too many self important experts who wrap their whole identity, ego and self-esteem into their own myopic view of being professional. I'll take a well rounded renaissance man any day over the 'professional'

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

His books are crap. Monotonous cacophony, drivel and drip. Much like the man.

Sounds personal.....