The real threat to NJA pilots

[Flex]

The mediators have said that they thought it was a fair deal,

They have? Your statement speaks volumes. First of all, there was only one mediator. Secondly, how do you know what the mediator said? Were you there? Did he tell you? It's what the MEC told you... what else did the MEC tell you? Didn't they call it the "industry leading contract"? Didn't they also say the contract would be done YEARS ago? How can you trust anything they say? So far, their track record stinks.

Vote it down and wait another year before barganing starts again, and another six months to a year beafore another TA?

How do you know it will take another year? What crystal ball are you looking at?

I say vote yes, take the bonus and move on

Again, your true colors are revealed. Do you plan on leaving Netjets, and you just want the "signing bonus?" If not, what are you going to do in the next contract.. just "take the money and run?" Guess what... if you keep up that strategy it won't be long before there aint no money to take!

I understand that some of the concepts are difficult for many to understand, just like they were at USAIR and Eastern,

USAir and Eastern? Did voting down a TA at Eastern allow Lorenzo to close the doors forever? Did a TA hurt USair's profits?

quality of life that is better than many of my friends who don't fly in the fractional business.

Yes, but we ARE in the fractional business, so comparing us to your friends is irrelevant.

Unfortunately your radical thoughts about pressuring me or others to vote a specific way and what may happen if you don't like the way the vote goes, convinces me that you should leave now, because you will never be satisfied

I'm not sure why this part of your post is in a different type setting. If this is you saying that you don't want to talk to anyone about your YES vote, all I have to say is that I'm not surprised. All the YES voters I have come across have a few things in common.
1. They are scared to say it.
2. They are scared of losing their jobs.
3. They are scared of how long it might take to do another TA.
4. They are scared of what management might do if we vote it down.
5. They are scared of a strike.
6. They are scared to talk to anyone about their YES vote, unless it is with another YES voter.
7. They get emotional if they are pinned down by a NO voter. I think they get emotional because deep inside, they know they are selling out.

 

[Snakeplt]

dukeofdub you are a f***ing IDIOT ! A WEAK WHINEY LOSER !

Wait...I'm right, YOU ARE ACTUALLY ONE OF OUR MEC MEMBERS AND YOU SUCK !!!!!

 

[upallnight]

Dear Duke,


What will gain if we vote this TA down? Where do I start?

1. self respect
2. ability to look in the mirror
3. a much better deal with Strongunion.
4. a MEC that will help the company see things our (and your) way.
5. a better life for my wife, son, and daughter.
6. Better work rules.
7. more money.
8. 7/7 forever.
9. ability to plan for the future.
10. The remainder of the 75K they owe me. Ill bet they owe you much more than that!

Do I need to go on?

Or you can vote yes, screw us all and wait 3 years to start this process over again. I know you'll make the right decision.

Vote no.

 

[ce750drvr]

Yo Duke!

I don't know what u r smoking, but man, lay off of it for a while. If you are in it for the long haul, then why would u vote yes? Do u realize that scope in this TA is VERY WEAK? Scope keeps NJA from forming another compay like NJI and taking owners away, but it doesn't keep BH from doing this. Are you willing to trust a company who has done nothing but lie to us, to not try and bust this union? If we allow this to happen, we could be out of a job in the future. Don't think so? Ask Griz (Griz, if I miss quote you or have my info wrong from your trip to the IAD joke show, please correct me), he heard what the scope messiah had to say. I believe Mr. Wilder and Mr. Wentz both said that the scope TA has loop holes and is weak.

Why, why, why, would you vote yes based on this fact alone? R u here for the long run? Or r u just here for the "money and run"? If you are here for the haul, vote no. If you are a short timer, do us a favor and don't vote at all if you can't vote no.

Some people are just a lost cause. You seem to have your mind made up. Did you read the TA? Do you not see the regression in it? I guess not. Just try to be better educated before you vote.

If it passes (I seriously doubt is does), thank you for voting yes and putting our entire membership in jeopardy of losing their jobs.

 

[FL450]

Rather than rip into this guy, educate him. Pilots who seem to be leaning to YES are leaning that way out of fear. The fear of the unknown. Mediator thoughts, Company finances, BB letters, roadshows and the like. All fear tactics. What if? What about? Why would the MEC be so hell bent on selling this with fear rather than selling it on it's own merits? I'm baffled.

My only fear would be that things will turn around and we will be stuck with this POS for a definite 3 years, most likely longer if these negotiations were any indicator.

 

[FL450]

Maybe he would respond if your avitar were a clown, rather than a grizzly!

 

[dukeofdub]

CE750 - I believe that you are right. I'll just sit it out and let those of who care vote and I'm just gonna concentrate on movin on. Pass or not pass it just ain't worth it for me.

 

[beytzim]

DukeofDub,

I am convinced that you are beyond convincing. You obviously made up your mind for your own reasons. Fine.

Please understand that the TA is going to be voted down. The new slate will be voted in, and yes, it will be sometime before we get a new TA.

You will not get the bonus check even if you vote yes, as the vast majority will be voting no. So YOU will be with this current contract for awhile longer, buddy.

You must also remember that on Feb. 1st, 2005, 91k begins. If a new TA is not in effect, the company will be in quite a bind - despite what the MEC or Okey say. (Why do you think there's a 1400 availabilty on your last day off in the TA?) So it is in the company's interest to have something by Feb.1, period.

You must understand that your YES vote is a wasted ballot. The split will be 70/30 or better. Rather than throwing a vote away and giving the company more ammunition for the next TA, you should vote NO to give us more muscle in the upcoming negotiations.

You can PM if you wish to discuss it further. For the rest of you at NJA, you can read my EJAPILOTS post on the MSP road show - I was the one who 'shook' things up a bit for the MEC

 

[Hawkered]

Duke of Dub,

Most people don't realize that trying to work within a system is usually the best way, rather than engaging in seemingly worthy, but radical and even illegal versions of self-help.

I have seen people posting some unbelievable crap on company pagers that would allow themselves grounds for dismissal. They are not elected officials and have no rights of protection under any of the NLRA or RLA laws.

Enter into the fray an individual that uses FBO computers as a launching pad for his own media campaigns and the result could be a civil lawsuit against the Teamsters that could very well bankrupt the entire national union, not to mention penalties levied by the NMB.

The union has no control. They have not controlled any of their own communications. Now we have spouses that don't pay dues logging on to union message boards and hijacking the voting process. I for one think the entire process has already been corrupted by these illegitimate actions.

I have served as an ALPA rep. before, never have I seen the basic lack of professionalism in union negotiations as here at NJA. The lack of communication, leadership, ability and savvy has left me to believe we have all paid over $600 a year for a bad bill of goods. I hear the lawyer has made over a million on it already!

Guys! We all get to vote. I think it will go down in flames, I don't think it has any chance in hell of passing, but, don't harrass me in front of passengers about my voting decisions. That's why it's called a secret ballot!

 

[GEXDriver]

NetJets TA

For what it's worth - every NJA pilot I've talked to on the road has said that they are going to vote "Yes" on the TA. Additionally, I just spoke to a Boeing driver (RS) who was adamant about voting yes, and two Falcon 2000 pilots (that I didn't know previously) who had the TA with them that said they were voting "Yes." The Falcon guys said that there were about 50 NetJet pilots who were actively spreading disinformation about the TA in order to get the uninformed to vote "No."

 

[Frac Daddy]

For what it's worth - every NJA pilot I've talked to on the road has said that they are going to vote "Yes" on the TA. Additionally, I just spoke to a Boeing driver (RS) who was adamant about voting yes, and two Falcon 2000 pilots (that I didn't know previously) who had the TA with them that said they were voting "Yes." The Falcon guys said that there were about 50 NetJet pilots who were actively spreading disinformation about the TA in order to get the uninformed to vote "No."

Funny. Every single NJA pilot I have spoken with has said they are going to vote "no".

 

[TORCH67]

That's a good one!!! Keep them comming gexpilot. Or you could crawl under your bridge and scare the next passer by!

For those in Rio Linda, I do believe I smell a TROLL

 

[beytzim]

Hey GEXDriver, You're full of it. Talk about misinformation! Certainly the Falcon 2000 and BBJ pilots represent the average NJA pilot! The reality is the vast majority of NJA guys have been here less than 5 years, making none of them Falcon or BBJ guys (sans a few F/Os). Those senior guys have no say in this vote. They live in Columbus and suffer the 'abuse wife syndrome'.

Regardless, MOST of them are a bunch of losers who couldn't get jobs at the airlines prior to 9/11. Their lack of judgement in staying here prior to 9/11 with so many other companies hiring is only exceeded by their stupidity, ignorance, and lack of self worth in voting YES for this POS.

Consider the source, dip$hit. You are a moron if you follow their lead, buddy.

Oh yeh, there's a lot more than 50 pilots out there misinforming us. Try 900+, the number of 284 separation petitions already sent!

 

[netjetwife]

Exchanging information---

All the wives I talk to, except 2 scared ones, report on our SEPARATE wives board that their husbands are definitely voting NO, and that the DVD is PATHETIC evidence that the company KNOWS the TA is going DOWN! The VAST MAJORITY of the pilots know that the TA is flawed from cover to cover, in every issue. The ONLY 2 subgroups that will be voting for it are the MOST SELFISH and the MOST FEARFUL----neither worth bragging about!

Question: If the TA is such a good contract, why are they taking so long to send out the printed copies? Why spend so much money pushing it so hard?

Good products always speak for themselves. Consumers look for value--be it a house, a car, or a contract. This model offers very little value , and that's why the average "customer" isn't buying it!

 

[Hawkered]

Alright...you remember those meetings at Parents/Teachers where each parent was allowed to have three minutes, then told to stop?

It's time to stop!