The real plan mgmt has for the future at Pinnacle

[gojo]

There have been hundreds of proposals made in these negotiations, what makes you think that they are just going to accept this one that includes the big work rules and the primary compensation pieces?

Maybe they won't, but if you don't aim for the bulls eye how close are they going to get?

 

[sinkrate]

Maybe they won't, but if you don't aim for the bulls eye how close are they going to get?

If it is that easy don't you think they would have tried that by now? After five years?

Negotiations are an endless match of maneuver, parry, counter, maneuver, jab, maneuver, etc..... You are trying to discover your opponent’s sensitive issues and pressure points without showing them yours. 'Aiming for the bulls eye' is almost always a big mistake. Your proposal is easily parried, you learn nothing of your opponent and he learns volumes about your goals. Normally, a pummeling at the table shortly follows such folly.

Pinnacle management has a very, very experienced team at the table. Between them they have been through more than ten different negotiations in every venue imaginable, at a number of different carriers. Your rookies aren't going to hit them with a knock out punch. If they try and throw one they just leave themselves open for a big counter punch. Hopefully, they will listen to their legal counsel. That a really veteran team too.

 

[gojo]

If it is that easy don't you think they would have tried that by now? After five years?

Negotiations are an endless match of maneuver, parry, counter, maneuver, jab, maneuver, etc..... You are trying to discover your opponent’s sensitive issues and pressure points without showing them yours. 'Aiming for the bulls eye' is almost always a big mistake. Your proposal is easily parried, you learn nothing of your opponent and he learns volumes about your goals. Normally, a pummeling at the table shortly follows such folly.

Pinnacle management has a very, very experienced team at the table. Between them they have been through more than ten different negotiations in every venue imaginable, at a number of different carriers. Your rookies aren't going to hit them with a knock out punch. If they try and throw one they just leave themselves open for a big counter punch. Hopefully, they will listen to their legal counsel. That a really veteran team too.

I'm just saying, they have to try. What I keep hearing is that nothing is going to work

 

[CptMurf]

Actually negotiations are an over reach in expectations on both sides of the table. Then a whittling away to an acceptable middle ground. This takes time, and trust that a middle ground can be reached.

Protracted negotiations tend to lose focus. This JNC has the advantage of only setting their goals 72 days ago, with outside pressures on mgmt. So far they have done an outstanding job, and I support them fully to attain a good contract. That includes giving them time to do it.

 

[xjhawk]

Actually negotiations are an over reach in expectations on both sides of the table. Then a whittling away to an acceptable middle ground. This takes time, and trust that a middle ground can be reached.

Protracted negotiations tend to lose focus. This JNC has the advantage of only setting their goals 72 days ago, with outside pressures on mgmt. So far they have done an outstanding job, and I support them fully to attain a good contract. That includes giving them time to do it.

Well said. I have been thinking about those of you on here who think nothing will ever work and that no contact can be had and if a TA does occur you will be too bitter to vote yes no matter how good it is. The last two sections are the biggest but as for compensation, I am sure the final numbers will be something a little better than Mesabas rates because that is the bottom "line in the sand" If they cannot meet that I will join any picket and I am sure Mesaba's union will agree

Here is an idea for all of you right now. I saw you should do your own private version of a strike. Its called quit, really stick it too them and do not even put in a two week notice! Then do me a favor, get a job at a cargo or fractional so I do not have to read your crap on here

 

[sinkrate]

Actually negotiations are an over reach in expectations on both sides of the table. Then a whittling away to an acceptable middle ground. This takes time, and trust that a middle ground can be reached.

Protracted negotiations tend to lose focus. This JNC has the advantage of only setting their goals 72 days ago, with outside pressures on mgmt. So far they have done an outstanding job, and I support them fully to attain a good contract. That includes giving them time to do it.

What do you do when the other side has no intention of reaching the 'middle ground'? And tells you that.

 

[CptMurf]

What do you do when the other side has no intention of reaching the 'middle ground'? And tells you that.

We're not there yet. We are giving proposals, they are countering. Negotiations continue, in good faith, and resume tomorrow I believe.

This is the JCBA.... Protracted Section 6 negotiations were paused 74 days ago. We need to focus on this for now, for the good of all of us.

 

[belchfire]

You guys are about to buy UPS!

Break out the champagne!

3 More DC-10's...or is it 10 more DC-3's?

Whatever smoke management is blowing up your anal orifice, prepare for the opposite-the worst possible outcome...even if I'm wrong you will get a pleasant surprise at the best.

me oh my, cynical tonight, aren't we?

Yeah, pretty much, and with good reason!

I've been exposed to some escapees from Flagship management...

They'll breed, you'll die!

 

[snap145]

The plain and simple facts are as such...you XJ guys think we have no unity and no balls ( I agree )....you made that very clear with your actions not to support our picketing, the problem I have with that is you all sit on here and rant and rave about unity and then you stab the 9E pilots in the back...remember one thing...when this is all over WE will be sharing a cockpit...I will give credit where credit is due, most of the XJ guys on here make alot of sense, and we all have to look out for number 1 and our families I get that, but what I think you guys are completley overlooking is how ugly this SLI will get if we dont get a JCBA...if this thing goes to Section 6 negotiations, it will be VERY ugly for anyone wearing Blue and Gray, thats just the reality of the tactics of a tenacious management group. Please remember that if at ANYTIME throughout the JCBA negotiations any one of the three parties, be it 9E, 9L or XJ wants to get up and walk out off the table.....they can...no questions asked...if I were a Mesaba pilot that would scare the crap out of me...yes i said it..having my future laying partially in the hands of the Pinnacle MEC...HAHAHA what a frightening concept!!!...the smart and rational people on here from XJ are the ones who realize that UNITY between us is the ONLY case for survival...a JCBA benefits both the 9E and XJ groups or neither would be at the negotiating table...ultimatley our respective unions should represent and do whats best for us as individual groups not collectivley as a team...the stinger is...we as Pinnacle pilots dont really understand how leaving us to walk alone is an act of unity or good bargaining faith from the mesaba table...I truly hope this JCBA goes through for all of our sake...

 

[bri5150]

I think you guys are completley overlooking is how ugly this SLI will get if we dont get a JCBA...if this thing goes to Section 6 negotiations, it will be VERY ugly for anyone wearing Blue and Gray, thats just the reality of the tactics of a tenacious management group. Please remember that if at ANYTIME throughout the JCBA negotiations any one of the three parties, be it 9E, 9L or XJ wants to get up and walk out off the table.....they can...no questions asked...if I were a Mesaba pilot that would scare the crap out of me

Can someone tell me why management should care where the Mesaba pilots are on the seniortity list? Unless SLI adjusts LONGEVITY, then the costs are basically the same if Mesaba is stapled or if Pinncale is stapled. We are all getting paid based on years of service, not where we are on the seniority list. I guess maybe a little savings having the senior pilots on the lower paying aircraft?

Also, I am not that scared of 9E leaving the table because they won't be better off on their own. This is the third time asking this on this forum, and I have yet to get a response. Are Mesaba and Colgan holding the Pinnacle pilots back from getting their "dream" contract? Would Pinnacle have more leverage negotiating on their own? Would Pinnacle benefit from a whipsaw? Okay, the last question is a new one, but it's relevant.