"The New ATA"

[HalinTexas]

the integration is ALWAYS contentious, sometimes for decades.

But they're integrated, not subjected to preferential interviews. That's my point. Like I said, if everyone is a little bit PO'd then it's probably a fair deal.

Controlled growth is the way to go

Yes, it is, but when is it ever "controlled" in reality?

 

[UALjan15]

Yes, it is, but when is it ever "controlled" in reality?

Well, how about SWA ever since their Morris experience? Alaska? Jet Blue? Lots of examples come to mind.

Unfortunately, some big egos in management love throwing together a "deal," eager to leave their mark on their company before strapping on their golden parachute and jumping to their next lucrative gig. It's the rank and file that are left with the impossible task of sorting out what's fair. And although I agree with you that the integration that pisses off all parties equally is pretty close to fair, who wants to go to work when everyone is PO'd??

Yes, it takes careful planning, discipline, and a little luck to grow from within. I would argue that the rewards are worth the effort. Just my opinion.....

 

[75M]

Answer me this.....What did Valujet do with the old Airtran and old AirFL guys/gals they absorbed? How were they integrated? I guess you feel that the AMR/TWA deal was fair?

If APA had offered TWA the deal that Airtran got from Valujet, I'd have crapped my pants and signed in a New York minute. It was a great deal that involved DOH for most and a ratio that actually gave some of the Airtran pilots BETTER than DOH.

 

[-9Capt]

Ty,
Here's the deal....

ATA crews are sacrificing their careers for Airtran pilots to advance theirs.'

If this deal goes through, which I doubt, then I won't be going to work for Airtran, and that's the feeling of many, if not most, ATA crewmembers. I feel I would be treated as second class by those that feel I should "feel lucky to be there." I'd rather learn to weld.

Halin',
Too bad you feel that way, I think you're way off base.

While many ATA pilots may agree with you, I just dropped off 3 resumes with letters of recommendation from friends of mine from ATA. You don't know the AirTran pilot group very well if you think you'll be treated as "second class".

Get yourself a good quality welding mask!

 

[75M]

-9,

Good point. I have friends at ATA and have already told them that I will do what I can to help. I wish George negotiated a better deal for you guys. Also, to address an earlier post, I know there are guys at ATA who have forgotten more than I'll ever know.

 

[Nalo Boy]

wish you the best of luck guys

 

[Skyflyin]

HalinTexas says:

The only reason you assume I'm talking down to you is that I've been following this discussion on this board for a while now, have looked at the "offers" from management and Airtran, and have concluded that management from both companies, and many Airtran pilots look down on the ATA crewmembers.

As another ATA pilot I think you’re wrong. This is a business deal plain and simple. They want the gates to diversify their Atlanta hub, but without having to integrate crewmembers that have been around for many years requiring higher than first year pay. It is a business decision period. Yeah it sucks if you’re an ATA crewmember, but that is the way it goes. ATA is the carrier in financial trouble so ATA can only take what is available to us since our bargaining position is not very good. This is also why we as crewmembers must do everything possible to make an AWA deal a reality.

 

[FL717]

Lets talk present tense facts..

HalinTexas:
I debated a while deciding whether to jump into this, but I'm sorry... we're all adults here. Grow up!

I have quoted and pasted a "greatest hits" package of your emotionally charged "posts", so maybe... just maybe, you can step back and see how factually inadequate your posts appear to the mainstream.

There are pilots at ATA that have forgotten more things than you know about flying.

Besides that being a ridiculous thing for any Professional to go around saying.... your point is what?

Answer me this.....What did Valujet do with the old Airtran and old AirFL guys/gals they absorbed? How were they integrated? I guess you feel that the AMR/TWA deal was fair?
ValuJet bought Airtran for the name (operating certificate), right? They didn't buy them for MCO, old B737-200's, or for anything else. So, if you've bought some part of another carrier and taken their pilots and said merger/acquisition resulted in an old "manatee" as number 1 on the list, then a precedent has been set for integration.

What strikes me as quite unusual, is here we have alot of incomplete assumptions and answers from the same person that is asking the all the questions. Judging from YOUR answers to YOUR questions, you haven't a real grasp on anything factual. Here is a FACT for you. AirTran (as of now) is NOT buying ATA, so your apples to oranges comparison is presumptuous at best.

The only reason you assume I'm talking down to you is that I've been following this discussion on this board for a while now, have looked at the "offers" from management and Airtran, and have concluded that management from both companies, and many Airtran pilots look down on the ATA crewmembers.

Please show me facts to validate this? I have read all the posts here on Flightinfo, AND on our private independent AirTran Pilots website, AND I have read the signed agreement between ATA and FL Management, and I have concluded that you are completely WRONG.

ATA crews are sacrificing their careers for Airtran pilots to advance theirs.'

Please present FACTS. I wasn't aware that AirTran has acquired any of the MDW gates. In fact AirTran will grow regardless whether we expand at MDW or DFW, or BWI, or MCO etc etc. Also for a fact, AirTran began bidding for new aircraft and placed an order for 100 B-737 last year long before ATA was even thinking of bankruptcy. Please get a grip man. You haven't sacraficed ANYTHING for me... and once again I have concluded that you are WRONG.

I don't think that any pilot at ATA is expecting DOH. But they're integrated, not subjected to preferential interviews. That's my point. Like I said, if everyone is a little bit PO'd then it's probably a fair deal.

So if you're the one thats "PO"d, then I will assume that its a fair deal, and you will accept it as a fair deal..... is that your real feelings..... I'll bet not.

 

[FDJ2]

Just an observation, but any seniority integration issues or triggers will not be resolved on this forum. If the Airtran or AWA deals trigger the ATA merger and fragmentation clause in the ATA PWA, then there will be an integration of lists. It's that simple. Those who think that a judge will willy nilly (technical legal term) throw out this job protection language are mistaken, since there is no justifiable need to throw it out. Both Airtran and AWA will need more pilots if their deals goes through and those pilots will come from ATA and they will be integrated, not stapled, as they should, and most likely in accordance with the ALPA merger and fragmentation policy, which specifies that no pilot will receive a windfall at the expense of another. The only real question is whether or not either of these transactions trigger the ATA PWA merger and fragmentation policy.

 

[FL717]

Just an observation, but any seniority integration issues or triggers will not be resolved on this forum. If the Airtran or AWA deals trigger the ATA merger and fragmentation clause in the ATA PWA, then there will be an integration of lists. It's that simple. Those who think that a judge will willy nilly (technical legal term) throw out this job protection language are mistaken, since there is no justifiable need to throw it out. Both Airtran and AWA will need more pilots if their deals goes through and those pilots will come from ATA and they will be integrated, not stapled, as they should, and most likely in accordance with the ALPA merger and fragmentation policy, which specifies that no pilot will receive a windfall at the expense of another. The only real question is whether or not either of these transactions trigger the ATA PWA merger and fragmentation policy.

Absolutely! Your post says it all perfectly clear and matter of fact, and I agree.

Also..... I said this in a previous thread, and I will state again here for the record: Other than ATA filing for bankruptcy, nothing has even happened for cryin' out loud, but, IF this MDW gate acquisition EVEN HAPPENS and if it IS in fact a trigger for the fragmentation clause in the ATA Pilots contract... then I expect and fully support the 100% integration of ATA Pilots at AirTran IAW that CBA.

Lets face it, we ALL have to stand up for our contracts, because nobody else will. Without them we ALL get screwed. (Well..... somehow I feel like we get screwed anyway).