The new Airtran merger symbol

[dicko]

made a kock ring out of my one luv lanyard

works great

The neighbors have my medallion ....... Bob and Larry love it. They wouldn't tell me what they want it for though.

I feel sure its gone to the right place.

 

[Empennage]

The neighbors have my medallion ....... Bob and Larry love it. They wouldn't tell me what they want it for though.

I feel sure its gone to the right place.

Money well spent!

 

[Metrojet]

JT,

I'm at least as pissed off about this deal as you are! Trust me!

I may have gotten a little bump in seniority but waiting 9+ years to see it ain't exactly giving me a winning lottery ticket. In fact, I'm losing money on this deal because my profit sharing is paying for your 1st quarter and acquisition costs and bringing you guys over will only dilute the growth potential that would have put EVERYONE new WN pilot below me. You, otoh, get an immediate 20-40% payraise, keep your seats and prohibit several 100 of our FO's (who are WAY more senior that your bottom skipper) from seeing what they feel is their rightful upgrade.

I wish the whole thing hadn't happened but it did and we gotta vote on it and live with it. When the whole thing shakes out I'm going to make lemonade and get on with it. I just hope we don't end up with another East/West debacle.

Honestly, after reading the deal, I expected MUCH more gloating from your side!

Gup

Not to jump into your merger thread - but nothing can be as bad as our merger (us/awe) no matter who you feel is right/wrong east/west.

Metrojet

 

[General Lee]

JT,

I'm at least as pissed off about this deal as you are! Trust me!

I may have gotten a little bump in seniority but waiting 9+ years to see it ain't exactly giving me a winning lottery ticket. In fact, I'm losing money on this deal because my profit sharing is paying for your 1st quarter and acquisition costs and bringing you guys over will only dilute the growth potential that would have put EVERYONE new WN pilot below me. You, otoh, get an immediate 20-40% payraise, keep your seats and prohibit several 100 of our FO's (who are WAY more senior that your bottom skipper) from seeing what they feel is their rightful upgrade.

I wish the whole thing hadn't happened but it did and we gotta vote on it and live with it. When the whole thing shakes out I'm going to make lemonade and get on with it. I just hope we don't end up with another East/West debacle.

Honestly, after reading the deal, I expected MUCH more gloating from your side!

Gup

OH BS!!! Most people on here think otherwise it seems. The payraise would be great, but it also seems most of their FOs would be junior forever, with very long upgrades, and even most of the Captains would be junior too. Great pay, bad QOL. Is that a part of your CULTURE?

You will end up with an East/West debacle if you treat your future brothers and sisters poorly. Hopefully that DOESN'T happen.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

, but it also seems most of their FOs would be junior forever, with very long upgrades,

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

Your whole assumption is BS. A simple question....


What was a mid to junior AAI FO's career expectaction on Sept.25th?

Let me clue you in, an upgrade down the road at AAI to junior CA making 127/hr, and enjoying airport reserve and the standard AAI management beat down for years to come.

Get the picture brother?

Now with this proposed ISL, they immediately go to making 137/hr. MORE than they would have made as a AAI CA. Would they be junior on the Southwest list? Absolutely, just as they would have been on the AAI CA list. But they get a few kickers as well..

Better Company
Better Retirement
Better QOL

I'm not trying to sell this deal to anyone, I say vote on it as you see fit, but I call complete BS on your assumptions Gen. The main downside that could happen is that they may lose their base of choice, but that's what happens many times with corporate deals like this. It sucks. Many also had their app in at SW anyway meaning they would have chosen to go THE ABSOLUTE bottom of the list and take an OAK base to start over. How is any of that worse for them?

RF

 

[waveflyer]

+1 red
We all know not every upgrade is equal- and definitely not this. When when upgrade's they take a hit in seniority in order to make money.
Please all you guys crying about QOL- tell me two things: how many AT FOs turned down their upgrade to keep weekends and holidays off?
And 2: how many of you have been junior at SWA-

Don't start minimizing how good you're about to have it.

 

[Music]

+1 red
We all know not every upgrade is equal- and definitely not this. When when upgrade's they take a hit in seniority in order to make money.
Please all you guys crying about QOL- tell me two things: how many AT FOs turned down their upgrade to keep weekends and holidays off?
And 2: how many of you have been junior at SWA-

Don't start minimizing how good you're about to have it.

Let me explain it this way. Everyone decides for themselves what they're willing to give up, in terms of QOL when they choose to upgrade. I upgraded 7 years ago and I took my first available upgrade opportunity.

AHAAH! you say. Not so fast.

At that time ATL was our only pilot domicile, so I knew where I was going to be. And because I commute, doing so within the Eastern time zone was important. Next, my wife and I were planning on her quitting her job and staying at home to raise the kids and my upgrade was going to help facilitate that process. As a result, weekends were not important to me at that time because the kids were so young and my wife was already at home.

So let's fast forward to today. My wife is still at home, but the kids are older and are in school during the week, so weekends have become much more important to me than they were then. My time at home is planned fairly carefully each month in order to maximize my time not only with my kids but my wife too. Unfortunately for me, this SLA would throw a large wrench into my family life as I would go from a Captain holding partial weekends off to being on reserve in ATL, then ultimately bouncing around the SW system with my degraded seniority. While voluntarily downgrading in order to maintain my QOL is an option, IMHO, that should come as the result of a ratified agreement, not the other way around. Stated another way, if I have to downgrade after the agreement has been ratified, then so be it, but I'm not going to vote to do it.

Notice, I didn't say anything about money. Again, everyone has a different motivation, that's all.

 

[scoreboardII]

You guys, are you working at Walmart 9-5 or have you voluntarily stepped up to the job in a TRAVEL industry, requiring, oh, say travel? I get the family thing, but your gone 3-5 days a week, cry me a river, NOT.

 

[waveflyer]

That's great for situation Music- and I honestly don't want you to spend less time at home- but that didn't answer my question- how many AT pilots have delayed upgrade for QOL? You have 1600 pilots, there is surely an answer in there-
No one did bc you didn't pay FOs well enough to ever turn down an upgrade- until we bought you-

I really think you're just complaining about being an airline pilot... This situation happens all the time with and without acquisitions - How many Air Wisconsin pilots stayed for decades so they could be home in Denver-? how many PSA pilots took their job to be based in Cali-? There's risk in every choice-


The question becomes- how can you argue that you get EVERYTHING in an acquisition where you were bought?
I've asked this several times and none of you answer bc you don't have one- please name 1 thing that Swapa pilots get out of this that AT pilots do not?
This will be good for all of us if we get through it and the culture survives- IF the culture survives-
Get greedy and it won't. I do define greed as getting ALL the benefits and arguing for more- Where is the two way street- where is the shared sacrifice?
You guys are pissing off this whole pilot group.
Congrats.

 

[Music]

That's great for situation Music- and I honestly don't want you to spend less time at home- but that didn't answer my question- how many AT pilots have delayed upgrade for QOL? You have 1600 pilots, there is surely an answer in there-
No one did bc you didn't pay FOs well enough to ever turn down an upgrade- until we bought you-

There are more than you think, but I don't know if it's quantifiable. You're statement is more akin to regional pay then pay at AT.

I really think you're just complaining about being an airline pilot... This situation happens all the time with and without acquisitions - How many Air Wisconsin pilots stayed for decades so they could be home in Denver-? how many PSA pilots took their job to be based in Cali-? There's risk in every choice-

I don't think it's dissimilar for any airline, really. I have a friend that has been at Delta for over 20 years and has never upgraded because of exactly the same QOL reasons I stated. Recently he was for forced to finally move domiciles because his was closed on the equipment he was flying. That's one example, and it is Delta, but for a time he didn't make much more than our FOs. I know, apples to oranges, but you get the analogy.

The question becomes- how can you argue that you get EVERYTHING in an acquisition where you were bought?
I've asked this several times and none of you answer bc you don't have one- please name 1 thing that Swapa pilots get out of this that AT pilots do not?
This will be good for all of us if we get through it and the culture survives- IF the culture survives-
Get greedy and it won't. I do define greed as getting ALL the benefits and arguing for more- Where is the two way street- where is the shared sacrifice?
You guys are pissing off this whole pilot group.
Congrats.

I'm not going to try and define it because everyone has a different point of view of what that is. I am not going to change your mind, and wouldn't presume to. I will also say that I certainly don't expect to get "Everything" either. I just have to evaluate what is there and vote accordingly. This agreement is just not it, that's all. I want it to be it, but it isn't.