The new Airtran merger symbol

[madjack]

Well Music, if your MC negotiated the $$ and now you want the seniority, that pretty much IS getting everything?

 

[Music]

Well Music, if your MC negotiated the $$ and now you want the seniority, that pretty much IS getting everything?

LOL! I know it does seem like double speak but all I'm saying as I wouldn't need all of the protections for my seat if the if SLI was a bit better. In other words, if I got bumped out of my seat as a result of my actual system seniority and not forced to do it because of QOL reasons, then I would be more apt to look at that than what's in front of me. The reason is that it would represent a more typical upgrade path while allowing me to utilize my seniority in a way that would be better for my family.

 

[SWA717]

Honestly, I think SWAPA and ALPA screwed up trying to save every AT capt seat. They should have settled for a little more seniority for the AT pilots and allowed some SWA FOs to upgrade. I know this would have costed SWA more money, but ultimately would have made more people happy on both sides.

 

[GuppyWN]

I'm insulted that Mr. Wilson 2005 hire keeps his seat over our 2001 hires. I am also flabbergasted that ALPA is screwing him out of ANY longevity bump when Mr. Wilson is downgraded to FO for Ty's return to the line.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Wilson is a no vote.

Gup

 

[asaflyer]

Honestly, I think SWAPA and ALPA screwed up trying to save every AT capt seat. They should have settled for a little more seniority for the AT pilots and allowed some SWA FOs to upgrade. I know this would have costed SWA more money, but ultimately would have made more people happy on both sides.

I agree 100%. Seems like it would make both sides happier.

 

[Music]

Honestly, I think SWAPA and ALPA screwed up trying to save every AT capt seat. They should have settled for a little more seniority for the AT pilots and allowed some SWA FOs to upgrade. I know this would have costed SWA more money, but ultimately would have made more people happy on both sides.

This is what I'm trying to say, more or less. IMHO, that would be more 'equitable' for both sides. 'Fair', well that's a lot harder to quantify as everyone is looking from a different perspective.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

That's great for situation Music- and I honestly don't want you to spend less time at home- but that didn't answer my question- how many AT pilots have delayed upgrade for QOL? You have 1600 pilots, there is surely an answer in there-
No one did bc you didn't pay FOs well enough to ever turn down an upgrade- until we bought you-

Years ago, I put off upgrade for a year for QOL issues, it was about a $65 an hour difference IIRC.

 

[Cruncher]

To the OP, nice post! I luv it!!

I have not been lurking here much these last couple weeks.

It seems pretty much both sides are pissed off with this AIP / SLI.

Mission accomplished I suppose.

Good luck to us all.

-C

 

[On Your Six]

Well Music, if your MC negotiated the $$ and now you want the seniority, that pretty much IS getting everything?

Should the AT guys get less money? GK is signing the paychecks, not SWAPA. So far successful mergers have finished the joint contract, with equal pay for same sized planes, prior to negotiating the SLI. Too bad you didn't go that route. Godspeed!


OYS

 

[Empennage]

Should the AT guys get less money? GK is signing the paychecks, not SWAPA. So far successful mergers have finished the joint contract, with equal pay for same sized planes, prior to negotiating the SLI. Too bad you didn't go that route. Godspeed!


OYS

Let me help you out with this matter.

Had both cbas been closer together in similarities, then a potential joint cba could have been part of the process. Why would both groups want to give up substantial gains in the end agreement? Airtran controlled that process with their strike vote and ratified cba. They could have negotiated an agreement much more in parity. I'll admit hypothetical in many ways. That would have potentially allowed for the process. Moot point.

Case in point. Do you recall when Mesa was looking to purchase aca? Why did the aca pilots feel the way they did? It would have triggered a joint cba.

Second...

See alpa merger policy. See Swapa merger policy.

In closing, we can put this matter to rest.

 

[Lear70]

That's great for situation Music- and I honestly don't want you to spend less time at home- but that didn't answer my question- how many AT pilots have delayed upgrade for QOL? You have 1600 pilots, there is surely an answer in there-

No one did bc you didn't pay FOs well enough to ever turn down an upgrade- until we bought you-

Wrong answer. Thanks for playing. No bonus points for you.

Prior to the announcement on 9/27, there were approximately 31 bypassing upgrade scattered throughout the upper tiers of the list. I had to go get an old seniority list out of my office this morning. So yes, we most certainly DID have bypassing pilots.

Not everyone has your "money above everything" philosophy. Just the way it is.

You guys are pissing off this whole pilot group.
Congrats.

Welcome to the club. If you'd have been at the meeting yesterday, you'd have seen that the vast majority of our pilots are pissed off, too. The MEC asked ATL P.D. to have an officer present for the meeting because of the lashback they've been getting on this, he lurked in the back all day. Thankfully everyone remained professional, but it sure as hell got heated quite a bit throughout the day.

Our people aren't happy, either. I know you don't get it, but it doesn't change the reality that taking a 30+% hit on your seniority when you're already making a comfortable living, and having threats and innuendo hanging over your head if you vote No doesn't do much for fostering good will.

In the end, I agree with other posters: a large bump in seniority and fewer protections, continuing to give you guys the upgrades would have been an easier pill to swallow. You'd have gotten the money from upgrading on time, your QoL doesn't change, and we'd have been able to keep *SOME* of our Quality of Life, even though our senior F/O's wouldn't upgrade on schedule.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda... we'll see what happens around 2:00.

 

[madjack]

Lear,

Save the angst for Mr Fornaro and Mr Kelly...you will meet the latter someday and he is the one with the checkbook...

 

[Lear70]

Nah, there won't be any angst on my end after this. Besides, most of it is on OUR end for not having a minimum bottom line for our MC not to come back with. Even YOUR BoD had that... our MEC didn't give them any direction; if they had, we wouldn't be voting right now on a Seniority List that not ONE of our reps says is "fair or equitable".

If the MEC passes this to us, we'll all vote our conscience and live with the decision of the pilot group. I don't think the presentations from the road shows will be fair and balanced, the MEC as much as said so yesterday in open session, which will probably sway the vote here and that'll be the end of it as far as I'm concerned. My work ethic and personal life attitude doesn't let me stay mad and miserable, that's no way to live.

See ya on the other side.