The latest on the AWA and AAA seniority

[doh]

So they will still have to have a joint contract for the list to be merged? If that is the case, then the East really will just vote no all the time. Or can the judge force this?

 

[reepicheep]

There is the distinct possibility of a phyrric victory.

It would still be worth it.

 

[TWA Dude]

So they will still have to have a joint contract for the list to be merged?

Yes.

If that is the case, then the East really will just vote no all the time. Or can the judge force this?

If we win the DFR case the judge will issue some kind of injuction. What it could be and what its effect would be is unknown. Of course they'll appeal but he seems to have a very good understanding of what's at stake so there's a good chance he'd make it very painful for the East to continue on their unvirtuous path. Their delay tactics of the past 22 months have benefitted them greatly already in terms of upgrades and fewer furloughs and the judge knows this. We can only hope justice will prevail.

 

[Fast43]

He is a judge not an emperor.

In this you are correct. However if you do not believe that he can amend the TA and order the list implemented, call up usapa and ask seham what a Federal Judge can and can't do. On second thought, if you want a real answer and not the delusional answer. Ask most any other legal entity. You may find out that the Judge is just like an Emperor in this area if he follows the law.

 

[MK82Man]

It’s been a while since I’ve posted, but I see the same “idiots” and “nonsense-spewers” are still here on FI. Glad to see my fellow AWA pilots still carrying the mail and providing rational input to the discussion and the continuing support of our fellow professional airline pilots.

For what it is worth, your view crystallizes pretty clearly when you have been furloughed for 5 months. All the while knowing that New Hires and East Furloughees are still working. USAPA has never gone on record over New Hires continuing to work while West pilots were let go. AWA pilots sit on the street in this economy enduring financial and emotional hardship; that should not have happened. What your realize is that this dispute is about money, power, and the East taking advantage of their greater numbers to elevate the East Pilots into a position that the merger & Mr. Nicolau did not place them. It is really that simple. East wants to benefit at the expense of their fellow pilots, they want a “do-over” on the merger agreement, 3 years down the road. Every day that goes by, East takes advantage of West. USAPA and every East pilot is responsible, there is just no way around that. They want to get something for nothing … it is so corrupt, it is just like the Madoff scandal, mortgage loan crisis, bonuses at AIG. Just cheat your way to the top and nobody will know, have time to investigate, or ever call you on it. Except this time, the AWA pilots have drawn a line in the sand and that day of reconciliation is indeed coming. Really with most Fraud, it does catch up with you. We will see if the Judge says USAPA violated its duty of Fair Representation and then what the penalties might be

It is one company, the new US Airways. Every day AWA pilots are denied our 757 growth slots, our E190 slots, and of course the integrated seniority list. All we want is what we agreed too. Every day the East Pilots benefit, while the West Pilots are prevented from capturing what we’ve been awarded or negotiated. We are going to get a Federal Judge to order it to be done the way it was supposed to be done. And I don’t mind flying with anyone out East. I look forward to flying with professional crews, anywhere, at any time.

 

[MCDU]

No East pilots will fly with any West pilots with the Nic award. Unsafe!!. Just like when AWA pilots feel that a East J/S is unsafe. Imagine having to fly together. It will not work.

Eastie DOH is 1988 (Former Capt. now blockholder) and the Westie hired in 2005 (always Reserve F/O) is more senior? Try coming to one of the East bases and see what that 2005 DOH will get you. No one will fly with you. Unsafe.

East pilots would rather see this place implode before allowing a judge to force a Union in implementing the Nic.

Time to start looking for a new career Westies. I see USAIR gone if they try to force the Nic. We are too old to put up with some Westie Judge appointed by Bush to destroy a Union buildt on Union principles.


M

 

[TWA Dude]

I see USAIR gone if they try to force the Nic.

I disagree but if that's the way it turns out then so be it. Doing the right thing doesn't always work out well but it's still worth doing.

Binding arbitration is supposed to be, you know, binding. That's why it's called binding. If it wasn't binding and any group who doesn't like the result can undo it it wouldn't be called binding. Both sides willingly went to binding arbitration with Nicolau knowing the results were binding. So why does USAPA think binding isn't binding for them? Watch the trial and find out.

For you few FI USAPA supporters: do you really feel lucky about your chances in court? Has counselor Seham inspired enough confidence in his ability to deliver? If you lose will it really have been worth it? If Judge Wake wakes does a good job then definitely not!

 

[MCDU]

No Joint contract = No Nic.
Judge can not modify ALPA merger policy. 3 things need to happen for a list to get implemented.Thats why ALPA failed.

Plus ALPA produced a flawed list with falsified data supplied by ALPA. Again, Nicolau used falsied data to come up with a flawed list.

A joint contract is not possible with Nic, which means ALPA has a safety mechanism, that both sides have to agree on a contract, which is not possible under NIC. Thats what Prater had in mind,when he tried to convince USAIR pilots that we could always modify the Nic with C &R, because the East had the power not to allow the Nic to take place. Like I said, a joint contract was not possible under a flawed Nicolau award. Why do you think Delta and NWA got them to sign a joint contract before the merger of the lists? Answer: to avoid ALPA merger gridlock. Both sides need to agree.

M

 

[reepicheep]

Eastie DOH of 1988 was either worthless - furloughed - or the industry equivalent of a new hire - junior F/O. Not the wests' fault, not Nicolau's fault, not your fault even. You guys worked for usair and that's what you got. Live with it and grow the hell up.

 

[becket]

No East pilots will fly with any West pilots with the Nic award. Unsafe!!. Just like when AWA pilots feel that a East J/S is unsafe. Imagine having to fly together. It will not work.

Eastie DOH is 1988 (Former Capt. now blockholder) and the Westie hired in 2005 (always Reserve F/O) is more senior? Try coming to one of the East bases and see what that 2005 DOH will get you. No one will fly with you. Unsafe.

East pilots would rather see this place implode before allowing a judge to force a Union in implementing the Nic.

Time to start looking for a new career Westies. I see USAIR gone if they try to force the Nic. We are too old to put up with some Westie Judge appointed by Bush to destroy a Union buildt on Union principles.


M

Mere Puffery....yawn.

 

[becket]

No Joint contract = No Nic.
Judge can not modify ALPA merger policy. 3 things need to happen for a list to get implemented.Thats why ALPA failed.

Plus ALPA produced a flawed list with falsified data supplied by ALPA. Again, Nicolau used falsied data to come up with a flawed list.

A joint contract is not possible with Nic, which means ALPA has a safety mechanism, that both sides have to agree on a contract, which is not possible under NIC. Thats what Prater had in mind,when he tried to convince USAIR pilots that we could always modify the Nic with C &R, because the East had the power not to allow the Nic to take place. Like I said, a joint contract was not possible under a flawed Nicolau award. Why do you think Delta and NWA got them to sign a joint contract before the merger of the lists? Answer: to avoid ALPA merger gridlock. Both sides need to agree.

M

B.S. The Judge could care less about ALPA merger policy. It is what it is and that process is complete...even down to the company accepting the list.

Also, The Judge absolutely CAN REWRITE THE TRANSITION AGREEMENT which is where your sides childish little threats of negotiating in bad faith for eternity, (also illegal) come in. The Judge isn't an idiot. He know that's what you guys will try to do. He has indicated in no uncertain terms that this will be finished in the end. No loose strings, no wiggle room, no more bull**** from you guys.

OVER.

Besides, Lee Seham told you guys that the wests' case "had no merit" and that our legal team had no knowledge of labor law. What do you have to worry about? Funny how it seems that the courtroom is the last place on Earth Seham wants to go...as evidenced by his non stop flooding the court with various motions to cause delay. Has to make you wonder about the "merits" don't it?

 

[Carl S.]

The East loves to blame everyone but themselves, it is the world against the East pilots! Do the East pilots accept any responsibility for the corner they have painted themselves into? Does the 1988 hire think they should have moved on after hitting the street? Does the MDA F/O think they should have stayed at PDT? You can't blame your problems(LOA 93, lost pension, Nic., USAPA incompetence) on the West,Wake or Nic. can you?

 

[MCDU]

I know it must be tough not cashing in on a lottery ticket. The junior AWA F/O's on here would have about almost 1000 Easties below him and would be around 60% up the list.

All those positions the East pilots have filled in the last few years are seats vacated and filled by the guys that were on furlough in 2005. Just like Delta and Continental that had huge attrition, the furloughed pilots came back and moved up fast. Those jobs belong to East pilots. The East is down to 2600 active pilots. There has been no growth and many furloughed pilots that returned are now widebody blockholders or Capt on E 190, which replaced the E 170. How Westies think they are entitled to East openings before all the 1988 pilots with 17 years is beyond me. Nic would have give them everything and more. Nic will never happen.

M

 

[becket]

Nic will never happen.

M

I'm saving this one...

 

[get2flyin]

No East pilots will fly with any West pilots with the Nic award. Unsafe!!. Just like when AWA pilots feel that a East J/S is unsafe. Imagine having to fly together. It will not work.

So lemme get this straight, if a Captain and FO out the East don't wanna be BFF's...UNSAFE! Are you saying they can't act like a professionals and just do their job? The majority of the Easties I've met are far more professional than you give them credit for. But, you are correct in that there are a significant minority who cry wolf, or "SAFETY" at the first hint of something they don't like. It's a glaring indication of their of lack of professionalism and it damages all of our credibility and profession far more then they can imagine.

Eastie DOH is 1988 (Former Capt. now blockholder) and the Westie hired in 2005 (always Reserve F/O) is more senior? Try coming to one of the East bases and see what that 2005 DOH will get you. No one will fly with you. Unsafe.

Wait, I know you don't actually work for USAir but you would probably be surprised to find out they don't have a "no-fly" list. If the East pilots want to call in sick instead of fly with a West pilot, they can be big boys and girls and do the Section 19 dance in front of the CP. That's certainly their prerogative.

East pilots would rather see this place implode before allowing a judge to force a Union in implementing the Nic.

Buddy, a sizeable minority of the Easties have been trying to implode USAir long before the West showed up....

Time to start looking for a new career Westies. I see USAIR gone if they try to force the Nic. We are too old to put up with some Westie Judge appointed by Bush to destroy a Union buildt on Union principles.

What's this "WE" business? One, I think the majority of the East pilots are far more professional than you give them credit for. Two, you think anybody wants to be without a job in this economy? Think again. Besides, it's become very evident that anyone who steps out to "make a point", East or West, will get put in "time out" by management for as long as they need it. Furthermore, there's no shortage of furloughed pilots, both East and West, who would gladly come back to work to replace them.

What else you got? Make it quick, I have to go on a trip soon.

 

[MCDU]

You Westies are all over this thread. Great job.
Keep up your great posts. Finally some westie action on these boards. Not being able to cash in on the Nic award must really suck.

M

 

[Scope out RJ's]

You Westies are all over this thread. Great job.
Keep up your great posts. Finally some westie action on these boards. Not being able to cash in on the Nic award must really suck.

M

McDoosh: (I just love how you respond to that)
How's it feel being the biggest *********************************** of FI?
The only lottery ticket was the one your dad bought when he paid for your job at Gulfstream.
Now get back on your meds and practice for that next golf "outing.":laugh:

 

[MCDU]

Glad to see you Dope. What took you so long?

20000 hours of flying? Holly Sh!T. Thats more then Sully and he is almost 59 years old. Thats 33 years of flying avg. 600 a year. When you try to pretend that you are a pilot, at least make it look realistic.
See you at the next NGPA outing.

Love
M

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Yaaawwwwwnnnnnn....somebody wake me up when this one is over.

 

[iflyhigh]

MCDU:

Why does the East not help CAL, DAL, SWA and UAL out and just put US Airways out of business, since that is what you wish. I am sure a majority of the pilots on the East have no problem going home to their families and stating they no longer have a paycheck coming in and that their are so many pilots on the street that I can't get a job.

But I did help the industry. I took out capacity, CAL, UAL, DAL and SWA are now able to raise ticket prices and increase their market share. SWA ceo will be happy to take over PHL and the poolies will be excited. CAL and DAL would like nothing more than to gain more market share out East.

Since you speak for 99% of the pilots out East (I find that hard to believe) why not just stop putting yourselves through all this turmoil and just close US Airways down now.