The End of USAPA is finally upon us

[flygirlqt]

Title does not match events. USAPA is not disappearing anytime soon.

The narrow question Silver is deciding is whether or not USAPA violated its DFR by not including the NIC in the MOU (actually everyone that negotiated and voted for it left it out).

Silver has already telegraphed the answer to that narrow question in the past but she also has come up with some wild rulings of her own. She is unpredictable and there is no telling what will pop out of her court.

Actually, Judge Silver is very predictable in her rulings. The true problem is a group of usapa sycophants that have no shame and refuse to honor their own agreements. The situation is further compounded by stunning arrogance and impotent legal arguments that eventually fail.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I don't really care if Silver orders the Nic to be used. I want to see her order eye-wateringly high monetary damages to the west pilots who have been harmed through USAPA's actions. I think that will be enough motivation to dump DOH from the C&BL's and actually use the Nic list in negotiations with APA.

Just because Silver may order the Nic to be used as the opener doesn't mean you can trust USAPA to not attempt to add DOH side deals during negotiations. They cannot be trusted to do the right thing, thus the only verifiable justice will be in the form of cash.

 

[Flybywire44]

Fishy!!! Read Usapa's legal update and see what smells fishy...Usapa is always manipulating the message for the masses...

So in other words, Green's post was just like the age 67 rumor?manufactured and fake.

I'm trying to ask a question Carl S.

Is this whole thread is a joke?

 

[General Lee]

Leonidas Update


Dear Xxxxxxx,

Late yesterday afternoon, Judge Roslyn Silver issued a comprehensive order that on balance is favorable to the West Pilots. We will comment in greater detail soon, but here is a summary. You can download and read the order "here."

To begin, Judge Silver denied USAPA's motion to dismiss and held that the case is now ripe for adjudication. Ripeness has eluded the West Pilots so far, but now our wait is over. We will have our day in court, our trial is scheduled to start September 24th, 2013. On that day USAPA can explain how a labor union is free to abandon the result of an arbitration when the majority does not approve of the result, yet still be in compliance with their Duty to Fairly Represent the West. USAPA has desperately avoided having to answer this question for nearly six years, but now there is no more delay.

Also in yesterday?s order, US Airways? motion to dismiss our complaint was granted. In addition, Judge Silver denied AMR?s request to join this litigation and she denied bringing the Allied Pilots Association in as well. While we are disappointed in a sense that US Airways was dismissed, the reality is that the East-controlled USAPA is the root cause of the troubles for the West.

The sooner we get to a judicial conclusion, the better for all ? West, East, and even American pilots. This will be the world?s largest airline and with it, the combined AMR-AWA-USA pilot group will be in a position to join our UAL-CAL and DAL-NWA brothers and sisters in regaining what has been lost by pilots since 9/11.

Finally, we want to once again thank all those who have contributed to this legal cause. Leonidas was formed nearly six years ago with the stated objective of preserving the West Pilots? seniority rights. Nobody gave the West a chance to stand up against the East-controlled USAPA. Well, the West did stand up, and three million dollars in legal fees later ? we?re still here.

Have a great weekend.

Sincerely,



Sounds like they feel confident......



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

Actually, Judge Silver is very predictable in her rulings. The true problem is a group of usapa sycophants that have no shame and refuse to honor their own agreements. The situation is further compounded by stunning arrogance and impotent legal arguments that eventually fail.

Predictable?


..just as ALPA would have been bound by the Transition Agreement had it
remained the pilots? representative, USAPA is bound by the Transition
Agreement. But being ?bound? by the Transition Agreement has very little
meaning in the context of the present case. It is undisputed that the Transition
Agreement can be modified at any time ?by written agreement of [USAPA] and
the [US Airways].? (Judge Silver)



Moreover, USAPA and US Airways are now engaged in negotiations for an
entirely new collective bargaining agreement and there is no obvious
impediment to USAPA and US Airways negotiating and agreeing upon
any seniority regime they wish. As explained by the Ninth Circuit,
?seniority rights are creations of the collective bargaining agreement,
and so may be revised or abrogated by later negotiated changes in this agreement.? (Judge Silver)




MR. HARPER: But indeed our position is neutral is
not good enough under these set of circumstances for where we
were. On September 7, 2013, the West Pilots had a
Transition Agreement that required the Nicolau to be dropped in
to any negotiated -- and that changed on the eighth.
THE COURT: So you are -- you wish to re-merge and
say that now the Nicolau Award, is it for your clients and
nothing else? That despite what I said, which is that
USAPA does not have to accept the Nicolau Award
as the only basis upon which to negotiate a fair seniority agreement -- now, that's what I said; correct?



MR. HARPER: Their duty -- the breach of the duty was
not to include the Nicolau in the MOU.
THE COURT: And is that as simple as it is?
MR. HARPER: Yes. I think that that is the breach of
the duty of fair representation. They had the duty to insist
on the Nicolau and they didn't. <<-------------- That was Wake's injunction

THE COURT: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. They
don't have a duty to insist on it?
MR. HARPER: As part of the negotiations, yes.
THE COURT: Well, you're saying they had to come to
the table. So what we're talking about is what I thought I
resolved which is it can be considered. It should be
considered. There has been a determination that it's fair but
that doesn't have to be the final decision on seniority.
Now, that's my ruling.

 

[Green]

So in other words, Green's post was just like the age 67 rumor?manufactured and fake.

I'm trying to ask a question Carl S.

Is this whole thread is a joke?

Flybywire,

No it's not manufactured. I am way too lazy to create a fake document of that length. I'm sure there is a way to find it online under court documents but I don't want to waste my morning searching. You can find the link at http://www.cactuspilot.com/ or possibly the usapa homepage (although they have a habit of keeping the truth from the true believers).

As Turtle stated USAPA is free to negotiate any seniority list they desire. They could negotiate one based on alphabetical order, weight, drawing names from a hat, etc. But as the judge stated (paraphrase) and Turtle failed to mention, a neutral arbitrator's result is a strong indication of a fair result and discarding it would place them on dangerous grounds.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

What I don't understand


Bye Bye---General Lee

Is most things aviation....

 

[General Lee]

Is most things aviation....

I hear you understand the Brasilia pretty well, and "Uncle" Stan really well. That's great for you guys.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Is most things aviation....

Double post...

 

[Flybywire44]

Flybywire,

No it's not manufactured. I am way too lazy to create a fake document of that length. I'm sure there is a way to find it online under court documents but I don't want to waste my morning searching. You can find the link at http://www.cactuspilot.com/ or possibly the usapa homepage (although they have a habit of keeping the truth from the true believers).

As Turtle stated USAPA is free to negotiate any seniority list they desire. They could negotiate one based on alphabetical order, weight, drawing names from a hat, etc. But as the judge stated (paraphrase) and Turtle failed to mention, a neutral arbitrator's result is a strong indication of a fair result and discarding it would place them on dangerous grounds.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

Ahhh. http://cactuspilot.com/ was not updated with this document when you posted it.

I was thinking this historical section was old and the first paragraph was manufactured.

http://cactuspilot.com is off it's A game!

Well, I'm very eager to see this issue resolved in the next couple years! :beer: