The DL TA

[General Lee]

50-99 seats was approved by our pilot group shortly after Sept. 11, United had just filed Chapter 11 and Delta had just told us that we were fired, unless we could cut our costs by 20%. It was suppose to be basically an 18 month extention of our existing agreement and I for one (and I suspect a lot of others as well) figured it was a bad time to try to fight for industry leading pay and that perhaps things would be better in 18 months. We made a mistake. We made a mistake because we didn't anticipate a three year bankruptcy at United. We didn't anticipate that the industry would still be in the ********************ter three years later. We didn't anticipate that Delta would file for bankrupcy last year. We didn't anticipate a lot of things, but we weren't the only ones. I think most people thought that this was just another downturn in a cyclical industry. Delta did (both pilots and management); their strategy (MGNT) was to hunker down, mortgage the farm and wait it out, just like they always did. Didn't work this time. Come to find out that this time is different; LCC's and oil $70 a barrel. The past is history and the future ain't going to look like the past. What's it going to look like? I don't know and we didn't know three years ago either. At the time we made that concession we believed our survival was at stake. Brad Holt said, "Deal me an Ace." He has played it like a joker. At that time we didn't have any planes larger than 50 seats and as far as I knew we weren't getting any, Scope was still intact at both United and Delta so, so what if the compay wants a 50-99 seat rate. A moot issue. There is also a rate for 100 plus seats, we don't have any of those so, so what? We're not geting any, just ask General Lee.
To catagorically demonize the SKYW pilots for a the decision we made back then requires a willful ignorance of the facts and history. The SKYW pilot group isn't catagorically different than any other pilot group. Jerry doesn't just hire stupid people. What is different at SKYW is the the experience the pilot group has with their relationship with management. ANY other pilot group in our shoes WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING!

Peace or GFYS, it's up to you. I don't care.

The break down was this----the top 1/4 of the pilot group voted NOPE, because they could see that they should be paid for what they are worth. The junior Captains (the next 1/4) voted for growth, because they had short term goals, and wanted more lines and maybe a base change. All of the FOs voted for growth, so they could move up the ladder, and they didn't care too much about the pay since they would make it up at Fedex. Those were the demographics, and they sold common sense that the senior guys knew about for growth that will in reality keep them at SkyWest longer, since it could take away mainline jobs. Sad but true, and this is according to my SkyWest buddy in SLC. (he voted NO)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Jon Rivoli]

Willful ignorance General. There wasn't any growth on the table at the time. The vote was about 75% yes though, but hey 25% will say no to just about anything. Maybe that 25% did see the writing on the wall, but if they did they had a far better crystal ball than most these days. More likely the made a stand on principle not knowing any better than the rest of us what the future held.

 

[737 Pylt]

Willful ignorance General. There wasn't any growth on the table at the time. The vote was about 75% yes though, but hey 25% will say no to just about anything. Maybe that 25% did see the writing on the wall, but if they did they had a far better crystal ball than most these days. More likely the made a stand on principle not knowing any better than the rest of us what the future held.

Jon:
I only keep bringing it up, becuase of a POS like CFIT who seems to "get off" on the demise of the DL pilots. Then No Delay chimes in.....Well, my patience has warn out with these types.
I guess its ok for you guys to take a "18 month" pay freeze (BTW its now April 2006, nearly 4 1/2 years later), but when the DL pilots do it, its that we have "no balls." Its not a slam at the SKY pilot group in general (te he), but towards your loudmouth spokespeople like cfit! Sorry if it comes off as offensive towards the pilot group in general (oh brother)!
Why is it when concessions happen at that person's airline, there is every justification, but when it happens at DL, its just too easy to take a cheap shot. I guess we (the DL pilot group) are the group everyone loves to hate. Its also a lot easier to blame us for their problems.
Regards,
737

 

[WSurf]

LMAO! Is that what you said to the Us Airways pilots when they voted in concessions...How about the UAL pilots??
The DL pilots, in fact voted in the most lucrative (highly paid) contract in aviation history....And this down spiral is OUR fault.
Congrats, you get the idiot of the year award!
737



From Airline pilot central:

Year 10 CRJ cpt SKYW ASA
$74.00 (crj 70)$57.00 (e120) $81.00 (crj70) $71.00

Now back to your rock Dave!

Don't think you understood what he said!! Work rules make up most of your money! Now I am sure that SKYW management would give their pilots a 8-10 dollar pay raise if they were allow to pull some of there work rules!
Work rules at a region means the difference between a 80hr. pay credit month compared to a 110hr pay credit month! So with the work rules I would guess to say ASA wouldn't take that much of a pay hit.
Maybe someone else can chime in on the ASA workrules Vs. SKYW!!

 

[Lebowski]

To catagorically demonize the SKYW pilots for a the decision we made back then requires a willful ignorance of the facts and history. The SKYW pilot group isn't catagorically different than any other pilot group. Jerry doesn't just hire stupid people. What is different at SKYW is the the experience the pilot group has with their relationship with management. ANY other pilot group in our shoes WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING!

Peace or GFYS, it's up to you. I don't care.

What Rivoli said. I am 100% behind Delta maintaining scope and turning things around. Continually lashing out at SKYW pilots does not help your cause as mainline pilots. Trying to pit ASA against SKYW doesn't help our cause, either. I look forward to working with our friends at ASA to improve things for both groups.

If you are upset at the tools who appear happy to take flying from Delta, please don't blame the rest of us who are behind you. Not only is it unbecoming, it's counterproductive.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Work rules are 75% of what we are fighting for in our negotiations. The other 25% is our pay rates that we will not reduce in order to get growth. Every time managment has asked for concessions we have told them NO! Our managment wants a concessionary contract and to bring our rates on the 70 down to comair levels. They can pound sand IMO and a lot of others at ASA.

From what little I know about SKW's work rules they are better than ASA's.

Hindsight is always 20/20. That applies to a lot of pilot groups, DAL and SKW included. Can't undo history, it is what we do now that matters.

 

[mrnolmts]

the problem is there is no such thing as a 76 seat aircraft.

Not that it matters in this particular scenario, but QX is putting 76 seats in their Q400's...

 

[Dave Benjamin]

From Airline pilot central:

Year 10 CRJ cpt SKYW ASA
$74.00 (crj 70)$57.00 (e120) $81.00 (crj70) $71.00

Now back to your rock Dave!

Before I go back to my rock maybe I can sell you a clue.
Hourly rates don't include bonuses and profit sharing. Nor do they take into account work rules or guarantees. Many of the ASA guys on this forum seem to want what SKYW has.

Work rules are 75% of what we are fighting for in our negotiations. <snip>
From what little I know about SKW's work rules they are better than ASA's.

Hindsight is always 20/20. That applies to a lot of pilot groups, DAL and SKW included. Can't undo history, it is what we do now that matters.

You also manage to ignore the fact that 50 seat pay at ASA is $3 less per hour than SKYW. Both airlines operate mostly 50 seaters. Another fact off the airlinepilotpay website you mentioned.

ASA - Most junior CA hired in 2001
SKYW - Most junior CA hired in 2005

Both airlines need improvements to pay but to say SKYW pilots are holding ASA back is nothing but ignorance on your part. Of course you know what they say - ignorance is bliss.

I guess you're one happy guy.
Good luck with your TA.

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

Before I go back to my rock maybe I can sell you a clue.



I guess you're one happy guy.
Good luck with your TA.

Dave,

Don't waste your time confusing him and genital leech with facts. They are just stupid, arrogant (my guess) or trolling to stir up arguments.

Here is the $64 question. If DALPA agrees to >70 seats, will these two finally leave and quit stirring things up?

 

[homerjdispatch]

Dave,

Here is the $64 question. If DALPA agrees to >70 seats, will these two finally leave and quit stirring things up?

We can all dream, cant we! :uzi: