The Delta vote

[bigshooter107]

Seems parking 150 crj 200s and replacing 70 of those with airplanes that can take a full load of pax, fuel for an alternate in bad weather , all the bags and have first class for the buisness and medallion customers is a good thing. If u want the company to be profitable get a hard cap on all DCI flying and make all the airplanes 700/900s. The jobs have already been outsourced, why is it such a bad idea for delta to make the most money it can from each airframe. Set a cap on the total DCI airframes and let the " regionals" fight each other to fly them. P.S delta or any other airline is not going to pay $130.00+ dollars an hour for a 900 captain...

 

[nimtz]

Management really doesn't want to go back to BK, because in BK you can lose control of the company. USAir tried and almost succeeded in forcing a merger with Delta, and they are doing that now with AA. Nobody wants to lose control, so BK is the LAST thing they want to do. One thing you do want is a successful, strong company. If 50 seaters aren't cutting it, and a 70 or 76 seater could make money on the connection routes that are a bit too small for a narrowbody at mainline, then that will add to profits and hopefully never allow the company to go into BK. You don't want to keep the planes around that add losses due to inefficiency, and you don't want to cut routes that add feed to the larger planes.


Bye Bye---General Lee

"And cause the new RJ's are gonna be more efficient they are sure to order more Widebodies for us!" Congrats on preaching the hypocrisy and stupidity you have shown. Of course you had to get ALPA to tell you how selling out can feel GREAT!

 

[General Lee]

So accepting the TA makes the leases go away? If they are going to accept trade ins for regionally flown 900s, I'm sure they would accept trade ins for mainline flown 900s also and they would probably make an even better trade in deal for new c-series. Also nothing says they can't keep similar or the same scope while offering better money to sell out quickly to continue on with their new business plan. I refuse to believe you don't have any more leverage to do better and to do it quickly instead of the traditional route of negotiations if the company indeed really wants this new business plan. If they don't REALLY want it now, why would they offer "improvements" before they even have to come to the table for anything? You CAN do better and you won't have to wait years to do it. You just have to stand together to get it. Giving up scope and profit sharing and offering too work more (staff more effectively/ hire less) to make it cost neutral just shouldn't be "good enough". Please raise the bar well beyond "cost neutral" if you are going to sell scope.

Apparently that is why we are doing this 7 months early. There is an opportunity with the manufacturers, and that is why they were willing to do this. Could they wait longer? I don't know. They apparently had two plans, to do this with us and get it done now, or to wait for normal section 6 negotiations (which could take a couple years---normal negotiations), and keep the 50 seat RJs for years with unbreakable leases. This was a deal with the manufacturers and the company supposedly. If they kept the RJs and had the leases, I suspect they would have used money for upkeep on those same planes instead of giving raises in the TA.

As far as allowing mainline to fly new -900s, that has been discussed at length. The regional lift is CHEAP. There is NO WAY mainline can beat that cost. Trying to do that would be complex, and if the pilots only did it, who would the other crew members be? If they were mainline, it would be prohibitively expensive. Regional contracts are constantly under review, and it seems the lowest cost wins the feed.

Also, when you have "leverage" you have to know what is going on. Is there something else besides the RJ trade up? Nobody really knows, or can say legally. (signed documents) In order to have leverage, you need to be sure you know what is going on.

As far as compensation goes, we just got a 4% raise on Jan 1st of this year, as the last yearly raise of our current 4 year contract. Now we are offered a TA that is 7 months early, with a 4% signing bonus (so 8% so far for the year), and then another 8.5% on Jan 1st of next year, one day after the normal ammendable date. Not bad. That means from Jan 1st of this year to Jan 1st of next year, we will have gotten a 16.5% raise, with two more 3% raises to go. It means cash in the pocket instead of waiting on the NMB to help with mediation, and two years of that. UAL has gone on for years with zilch since their merger with CAL. NOTHING.

Again, the NMB met with the MEC and told them a year ago that pattern bargaining WILL happen, but only with UA/AA/US. They also said the average time to bargain with mediation was over 2 years. There are many improvements in the TA, not only pay and scope. And, it lasts 3 years.

Remember, to have leverage, you need to know exactly what you are up against. If it is just a guess, then it becomes a gamble.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

"And cause the new RJ's are gonna be more efficient they are sure to order more Widebodies for us!" Congrats on preaching the hypocrisy and stupidity you have shown. Of course you had to get ALPA to tell you how selling out can feel GREAT!

They will have to order widebodies eventually, and the new scope protects from more international outsourcing through joint ventures. The scope is alot more strict under the TA, along with US codeshares like with Alaska.

You seem mad at your own troubles. I suggest you fix them first and then continue to complain. You guys are way behind.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Seems parking 150 crj 200s and replacing 70 of those with airplanes that can take a full load of pax, fuel for an alternate in bad weather , all the bags and have first class for the buisness and medallion customers is a good thing. If u want the company to be profitable get a hard cap on all DCI flying and make all the airplanes 700/900s. The jobs have already been outsourced, why is it such a bad idea for delta to make the most money it can from each airframe. Set a cap on the total DCI airframes and let the " regionals" fight each other to fly them. P.S delta or any other airline is not going to pay $130.00+ dollars an hour for a 900 captain...

Exactly.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

This^^^


We've already been down this route-

First of all GL, please answer a few questions:
1) Do RJ pilots EVER get to vote on what flying comes their way?

2) if an aircraft needs a whipsawed disenfranchised labor market to sustain it, should an airline fly it at all?

3) if that RJ produces the profit only by keeping labor wages low (bc it's "too expensive" for mainline to fly them) - why do YOU as a mainline pilot feel like you deserve a piece of that profit? You don't see the shadyness of that?

1. Apparently not
2. Apparently so
3. It's in the contract. The DCI unions can negotiate their own profitsharing at their own company. Back about 5 years ago, those companies were wildly profitable. If they don't like it, I guess they can interview at a legacy. Or, they can buy a 737 type for $8000 and apply to SWA.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[nimtz]

They will have to order widebodies eventually, and the new scope protects from more international outsourcing through joint ventures. The scope is alot more strict under the TA, along with US codeshares like with Alaska.

You seem mad at your own troubles. I suggest you fix them first and then continue to complain. You guys are way behind.


Bye Bye---General Lee

BAAAAH! Yep remember how well that line worked in from '96-'03. Keep deflecting with the 'look at your own house' garbage GL. That paltry defense only goes to show how much of a hypocrite you truly are. Guarantee you that in a couple of years it will be hard to find a DAL guy who admits to being a YES voter.

 

[General Lee]

BAAAAH! Yep remember how well that line worked in from '96-'03. Keep deflecting with the 'look at your own house' garbage GL. That paltry defense only goes to show how much of a hypocrite you truly are. Guraentee in a couple of years it will be hard to find a DAL guy who admits to being a YES voter.

In a couple years he will have had a 16% raise by then, with 3% more coming in the following January. He/she may also have upgraded finally to a 717 or bigger, increasing pay even more.


Good luck on your negotiations.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[nimtz]

In a couple years he will have had a 16% raise by then, with 3% more coming in the following January. He/she may also have upgraded finally to a 717 or bigger, increasing pay even more.


Good luck on your negotiations.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Thanks! Can't wait till big ALPA gives us DAL+$1 again and tell us how we all won on scope. I will have the integrity to vote no unlike you. Anderson and Sismek will surely light up a cigar and chuckle how stupid those 'brain surgeons' truely are...

 

[General Lee]

Thanks! Can't wait till big ALPA gives us DAL+$1 again and tell us how we all won on scope. I will have the integrity to vote no unlike you. Anderson and Sismek will surely light up a cigar and chuckle how stupid those 'brain surgeons' truely are...

A DAL+1 for you guys would be a 40% raise, and all of the work rules changes would add BILLIONS. Yeah, I hope that happens..... Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee