The Delta vote

[waveflyer]

Which is unrealistic Gen?

-900's flying at mainline, or less pay for widebody pilots to get them there.

Everyone always says that given a do-over Delta pilots wouldn't have let the 1st RJ off the property. But the current sentiment exposes that as a lie.

You didn't want airplanes on the property that could drag down the payscale and the same justification is used today.

Admit it General- DALPA caused rampant outsourcing globally, and are now not one bit willing to sacrifice a dime to begin to reel it in by making those 70 NEW -900's a mainline aircraft.

All by itself, the number of new -900's are more than enough to justify a new program- Delta pilots just don't think it's more important than money now.

Nevermind that the downward pressure on wages larger RJs being outsourced becomes the new industry standard.

Tell me general- you guys started the outsourcing mess- you've lived how it can snowball out of control- you gave it up for money, do you not feel that you owe the industry a raise or two to undo the damage??

 

[waveflyer]

If not NOW, WHEN??

Here's the number of aircraft you have in the fleet now-
70 new -900's is a good addition, no?
Eventually, as contracts expire, get all the -900's over and you're over 200 CRJ-900's, then maybe you'll have a case to get the 70's-


747-400:*****
16
777-200LR:*****
10
777:*****
8
A330-300:*****
21
A330-200:*****
11
767-400ER:*****
21
767-300ER:*****
59
767-300:*****
21
757-300:*****
16
757-200:*****
176
MD90:*****
35
MD88:*****
117
737-800:*****
73
737-700:*****
10
A320:*****
69
A319:*****
57
DC9:*****
21

 

[Yuppyguppy]

You guys will vote that new TA in just like in 1992 when COMAIR was allowed to get the 50 seaters. Repeating mistakes of the past.

 

[General Lee]

You guys will vote that new TA in just like in 1992 when COMAIR was allowed to get the 50 seaters. Repeating mistakes of the past.

Please get your stuff fixed too. You and CAL can't get it together, and that cost everyone in pattern bargaining.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[JustaNumber]

Which is unrealistic Gen?

-900's flying at mainline, or less pay for widebody pilots to get them there.

Everyone always says that given a do-over Delta pilots wouldn't have let the 1st RJ off the property. But the current sentiment exposes that as a lie.

You didn't want airplanes on the property that could drag down the payscale and the same justification is used today.

Admit it General- DALPA caused rampant outsourcing globally, and are now not one bit willing to sacrifice a dime to begin to reel it in by making those 70 NEW -900's a mainline aircraft.

Waveflyer does have a good point that is just not being acknowledged: that regional airlines are ALREADY a de facto B scale, whose very low pay subsidizes very high pay at mainline. You can't have it both ways--no B scale and high pay. Even though it seems sacrilegious to say this here, there are limitations on the economics of the industry, and Delta does have to compete for tickets. Just try competing with ____ if only all Delta RJs are flown at current mainline wages and benefits. Reality says, if you want no B scale, you have to "pay for it" with lower top-end wages.

Excuse me while I run for the bomb shelter! :bomb:

 

[tomgoodman]

Waveflyer does have a good point that is just not being acknowledged: that regional airlines are ALREADY a de facto B scale, whose very low pay subsidizes very high pay at mainline. You can't have it both ways--no B scale and high pay. Even though it seems sacrilegious to say this here, there are limitations on the economics of the industry, and Delta does have to compete for tickets. Just try competing with ____ if only all Delta RJs are flown at current mainline wages and benefits. Reality says, if you want no B scale, you have to "pay for it" with lower top-end wages.

Excuse me while I run for the bomb shelter! :bomb:

We thought we could finesse that problem by simply keeping the B-scale on a different seniority list, so those guys couldn't re-distribute the compensation at contract time. It worked for a while, but they were ALPA too, and their numbers grew, and their airplanes grew......:erm:

 

[waveflyer]

But I'll modify JustaNumber a bit-
It might take lower wages at the top in the short term, but a more unified group flying delta passengers will allow other airlines to hold the line on scope and lead to more unified pilot unions nationwide- which will lead to higher wages than can be negotiated today-

The 50's are going away- delta mgmt is offering these wages along with the outsourcing of so many -900's bc they're desperate to keep the whipsaw/divide and conquer market intact-

They know these short term wage increases are much cheaper than losing the whipsaw domestically- they also know this TAs wages won't stay for long w/ the downward pressure outsourcing creates-
with the 50's going away, the whipsaw market is severely diminished w/o adding more airframes....

Do what you want delta- bc you will-
But voting this in is really dumb in the long term.

Do you guys always have to fall for the transparent offer? They're offering it so easily for a reason

 

[Abernathy]

Waveflyer does have a good point that is just not being acknowledged: that regional airlines are ALREADY a de facto B scale, whose very low pay subsidizes very high pay at mainline. You can't have it both ways--no B scale and high pay. Even though it seems sacrilegious to say this here, there are limitations on the economics of the industry, and Delta does have to compete for tickets. Just try competing with ____ if only all Delta RJs are flown at current mainline wages and benefits. Reality says, if you want no B scale, you have to "pay for it" with lower top-end wages.

Excuse me while I run for the bomb shelter! :bomb:

There really aren't many realistic options when it comes to "taking back" 76 seat flying. The way I see it, there is only 1, and you have to ask yourself what's better:

1. 100+ brand new CRJ900s/EMB-175s flown by regional partners in exchange for 100+ 50-seaters, or

2. 100+ brand new CRJ900s/EMB-175s flown by mainline under a "B-Scale" that pays, say, 10% more than the average regional counterpart, AND the removal of 100+ 50-seaters from the regionals?


In my opinion, option 2 is the best option and the only way to get the company to consider Large RJs on mainline property is under a B-Scale that was comparable to airline rates. Work rules won't matter much anymore after the new rest rules come into play, as that will even out the playing field significantly. Furthermore, with the media focus on RJ safety lately, DL can be the first legacy to say that your flight to Moline will be flown on Delta airplanes by Delta pilots.

DALPA screwed up. Giving away that many more 76 seaters wasn't the answer. A B-Scale was.

 

[General Lee]

There really aren't many realistic options when it comes to "taking back" 76 seat flying. The way I see it, there is only 1, and you have to ask yourself what's better:

1. 100+ brand new CRJ900s/EMB-175s flown by regional partners in exchange for 100+ 50-seaters, or

2. 100+ brand new CRJ900s/EMB-175s flown by mainline under a "B-Scale" that pays, say, 10% more than the average regional counterpart, AND the removal of 100+ 50-seaters from the regionals?


In my opinion, option 2 is the best option and the only way to get the company to consider Large RJs on mainline property is under a B-Scale that was comparable to airline rates. Work rules won't matter much anymore after the new rest rules come into play, as that will even out the playing field significantly. Furthermore, with the media focus on RJ safety lately, DL can be the first legacy to say that your flight to Moline will be flown on Delta airplanes by Delta pilots.

DALPA screwed up. Giving away that many more 76 seaters wasn't the answer. A B-Scale was.

Don't the Airtran 717s go to Moline now? Won't Delta be getting 717s? Why won't they be going to Moline? Btw, it won't be 100 new 76 seaters going to DCI, rather 70, if the 717s show up. Then dump 150 50 seaters, for a net loss of 80 50 seaters total. A B-scale RJ flown by mainline is just too costly. There is no way mainline can fly cheaper than the whipsawed Regionals. If the TA passes, there will be caps on RJs, ratios to keep mainline flying more domestic than DCI, and 717s coming to hit places like Moline, with mainline payscales. 12th year Captain on the 717 starting in Jan of 2015 (2 1/2 years from now) will be $195 an hour, and it will be the smallest and lowest paying mainline jet. That is what people should be striving for.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[whymeworry?]

100% true

Not it's not. My sister's husband is a banking exec. Runs various projects. Mostly works from home out of choice. I'd estimate he puts in an actual 4 hrs a day of work. So, yes, he has to check in with his Indian counterparts from time to time and see how work is coming along, but he pulls in in $250K (plus stock options) to work from wherever he wants, whenever he wants. He actually prefers to go in to the office to get away from home distractions though.

Last year they closed down a project he was on, they gave him 6 months full pay while he looked for another position in the company. He he elected to leave at the end of 6 mo, he would've received a 9 mo severance. He basically cruised for 6 mo, then began getting serious the last 4 weeks. Found something within the company and elected to stay on.

One of my best friends pulls in $1.5 mil per year managing his clients with AIG. He rarely comes into the office before 9 am, his staff shows up at 0530. And he leaves by 13-13:30. I respect his work ethic because I watched as he built his business to run that way. He has a team of $200K per year assistants that cover the accounts when he's not in the office. The rest of the time he checks in on his upscale eateries and bars throughout the city, bikes, does yoga, travels and chases skirt. He is hardly a slave to his profession.

The point is, not every MBA or exec is tied to their job 24/7. So don't make the argument that our career is so much better than theirs.

The DAL TA is a complete joke. You guys deserve your fate if you vote that POS in.

You guys are going to vote for a TA that doesn't pay you until the aircraft is moving? On that part alone, it should be an automatic no vote for 100% of the MIGS.