The CS response to NJ ammended contract

[x402]

Dude,

I never said anything about a "small" difference in pay. Don't twist my words....not cool. What I did say is that everyone looks at the BIG pay difference with the NJ 18 day schedule compared to ours. Is there a difference in the 7n7...of course, but I never said it was little. Depending on how much OT you work will move the bottom line. Everyones is different. Holiday pay...yeah we don't have it, but we rotate schedules so if you work it one year, you have it off the next. I like that better. I would rather be home on the holidays instead of at work. Different strokes for different folks.

As far as holding the 7n7, that was the last 5 years as you have said. I had a buddy just interview at NJ last week and he was told that nobody knows how this new scheduling bid/policy is going to shake out. He is thinking about not going because of getting stuck on the 18 day, or delay to see what happens.

Vacation....yeah we need more and I believe that we will get it. We only have less than a handfull of people that have been here 10 years. Not much of an argument there. Sick time...what happens if you miss more than 12 days. Not flaming....just curious. I know a pilot here that has missed 18 days so far in 2007. Not one day of pay missed or one day asked to make up. If you're sick they don't want you to come to work.

Bottom line....if I were at year 10 right now, I would be pulling in around $123,373 with out even trying. That is just 2 OT days/month. If I did 3 OT days/month $133,560 at year 10. If I worked 4 OT days/month (which would be your 18 day) that is $143,747 at 10 years.

I'm going to give your friend the benefit of the doubt and assume he didn't understand what was presented. But, who knows what the Company tells new hires these days, I'm sure it wasn't the Union briefing that passed that bad info.
FACT
7/7 is the default schedule, he will get it as soon as he gets out of training.
The 18 day is a bid only schedule, not assignable. The only wild card is the 15 day reserve. It needs to be staffed at 10% per fleet and due to the premium pay people are betting it will go senior and not have to be junior assigned.

 

[CA1900]

I had a buddy just interview at NJ last week ... He is thinking about not going because of getting stuck on the 18 day, or delay to see what happens.

Just so your buddy knows, he cannot get stuck on the 18-day schedule. It's purely voluntary. Newhires are on an 18-day training schedule, but they're off it as soon as IOE is done (or after 120 if there's some delay in finishing IOE).

Nobody is junior-manned onto the 18-day, which is a change from the previous contract. (Everybody's still learning their way around the new agreement, I guess. )

 

[gunfyter]

Bottom line....if I were at year 10 right now, I would be pulling in around $123,373 with out even trying. That is just 2 OT days/month. If I did 3 OT days/month $133,560 at year 10. If I worked 4 OT days/month (which would be your 18 day) that is $143,747 at 10 years.

If i did 4 overtime days a month on year 10 7&7 base that is $168K. Plus all the overtime and holiday pay would likely make it close to 190K.

But let me correct your math error. 4 OT days a month on 7&7 is not 18 days a month... its 19.2 days a month.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Dude,

I never said anything about a "small" difference in pay. Don't twist my words....not cool. What I did say is that everyone looks at the BIG pay difference with the NJ 18 day schedule compared to ours. Is there a difference in the 7n7...of course, but I never said it was little.

No, you said, "The big pay difference between you and us (which is what everyone looks at) is on the 18 day schedule." There is a "big" pay difference between our 7&7s, as well as the 18-day.

As far as holding the 7n7, that was the last 5 years as you have said. I had a buddy just interview at NJ last week and he was told that nobody knows how this new scheduling bid/policy is going to shake out. He is thinking about not going because of getting stuck on the 18 day, or delay to see what happens.

Your buddy is a fool then.

Sick time...what happens if you miss more than 12 days. Not flaming....just curious. I know a pilot here that has missed 18 days so far in 2007. Not one day of pay missed or one day asked to make up. If you're sick they don't want you to come to work.

We have a sick/PTO bank. If you're sick 18 days every year, you will have a problem, and probably shouldn't be flying at all. Otherwise the days go into the sick/PTO bank. If you have 20 days banked, you can take all 20.

Bottom line....if I were at year 10 right now, I would be pulling in around $123,373 with out even trying. That is just 2 OT days/month. If I did 3 OT days/month $133,560 at year 10. If I worked 4 OT days/month (which would be your 18 day) that is $143,747 at 10 years.

You ought to look at a calendar sometime. On a 7&7, months will range from 14 to 17 workdays. You could not work 4 OT days every month and equal our 18-day on an annual basis.

 

[ultrarunner]

I'm curious why anyone at CS thinks anyone else in the industry gives a $hit what their opinion is? Or is this just posturing on the part of CS?

 

[Stinkbug]

well that was a random comment. It is a public forum after all

I'm curious why anyone at CS thinks anyone else in the industry gives a $hit what their opinion is? Or is this just posturing on the part of CS?

 

[ultrarunner]

Oh, I know that. I'm just curious why CS decided to go into such an 'in-depth' comment in response to a question from the press. That's all.

It's not typical of a large company to make such comments and provides no benefit.

 

[Stinkbug]

ok no problem but keep in mind the company comments were posted internally to keep the employees informed and squelch rumors. Then an employee ran to this forum and immediately posted it...

Oh, I know that. I'm just curious why CS decided to go into such an 'in-depth' comment in response to a question from the press. That's all.

It's not typical of a large company to make such comments and provides no benefit.

 

[ultrarunner]

ya know, after I read it a second time, I realized it was an internal comm.

thanks

 

[Captainzero1]

Last I checked, NJA was making money, Has Shares ever made any money?

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

SpaceBall 1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you start one more post by calling someone "dude" I an going to officially change your user name to Jeff Spicoli

Here's a visual for you: http://tokyojim.com/g/spicoli.jpg

 

[SpaceBall 1]

DUDE Just joking with ya'all. Gezz simmer down Francis! The orginal point is, this was an internal comm and should not have been posted on this site. Thats all.

Ultra Grump....As far as working the 4days of OT to equal 18 days a month. I know pilots here that have been doing that along time, so your argument holds no water with me. May be your retaining a bit of water....that could be the grumpy part!?!? Just kidding with you.:laugh:

CE-750 threw the OT and Holiday pay in for the 7&7 and that is why I post OT for our 7&7. Trying to keep it an apples to apples comparsion. I always come in one day early. Why, because it is usually a 4pm or so flight out in the afternoon. I have time for luch with the wife and then drive easily to the airport. For me, it is a pain in the arse airlining out on day one. Get up at 4am to plow through traffic to make a 0830 airline flight. No thanks, I'll take the cash.

Its not as bad here as what some are trying to say. I just want our pilots to use their God given brain. Think about things and make their own decision and not based it soley upon everyone else is telling them.

Just getting home for the Holidays today. Y'all fly safe, drive safe and have a great Christmas and happy New Years!

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

DUDE Just joking with ya'all.

I'm just messin' with you too, but...it's y'all not ya'all you yankee.

 

[kman]

been at nja for two and half years have not worked one holiday except mem. day.

The only people I know on a weekend start have it for a reason, just pref, traffic, more likely to just airline for whatever reason they get it because they bid it.

Just wondering for the senior guys at cs, would it be possible to get the holidays off ever year until u retire? Just a thought.

 

[Hawker dude]

DUDE Just joking with ya'all. Gezz simmer down Francis! The orginal point is, this was an internal comm and should not have been posted on this site. Thats all.

Ultra Grump....As far as working the 4days of OT to equal 18 days a month. I know pilots here that have been doing that along time, so your argument holds no water with me. May be your retaining a bit of water....that could be the grumpy part!?!? Just kidding with you.:laugh:

CE-750 threw the OT and Holiday pay in for the 7&7 and that is why I post OT for our 7&7. Trying to keep it an apples to apples comparsion. I always come in one day early. Why, because it is usually a 4pm or so flight out in the afternoon. I have time for luch with the wife and then drive easily to the airport. For me, it is a pain in the arse airlining out on day one. Get up at 4am to plow through traffic to make a 0830 airline flight. No thanks, I'll take the cash.

Its not as bad here as what some are trying to say. I just want our pilots to use their God given brain. Think about things and make their own decision and not based it soley upon everyone else is telling them.

Just getting home for the Holidays today. Y'all fly safe, drive safe and have a great Christmas and happy New Years!

Dude,

you keep talking about all the time you spend with your family but then again you're on this board every day?

And no matter what you say NJA has a better QOL and better pay. if you can't except it than you're just in denial or real jealous.

 

[CE750Driver]

Dude,

Bottom line....if I were at year 10 right now, I would be pulling in around $123,373 with out even trying. That is just 2 OT days/month. If I did 3 OT days/month $133,560 at year 10. If I worked 4 OT days/month (which would be your 18 day) that is $143,747 at 10 years.

I was assuming no extended days. Bottom line year 10 with 3 OT days a month, 165,000. 4 = 176,300. This is a big difference also.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Ultra Grump....As far as working the 4days of OT to equal 18 days a month. I know pilots here that have been doing that along time, so your argument holds no water with me.

It doesn't hold water with you because you've got some cracks in your logic and math vessel.

So in a month where you are working 17 days on the 7&7, if you work 4 OT days, that would be 21 days of work. Another way of looking at it is as gunfyter said. 18-day = 216 workdays. 7&7 = 182 workdays. 4 OT days/month = 48 days. 182 + 48 = 230. 216 - 230 = 14 extra days per year. Or 230/12 = 19.17 days/month, not 18.

Let's take your example for a minute: "If I worked 4 OT days/month (which would be your 18 day) that is $143,747 at 10 years."

If a 10-yr NJA captain were on the 18-day, and worked 14 extended days a year to equal your 7&7 OT guy for the year, he'd make an additional $14,104, added to his base salary of $145,072 would make it $159,176 without after midnights, holidays, or overtime. You'd still be $15k in the hole. BTW, do you get after midnight, holiday, or overtime pay?

Or, an NJA 10-yr captain on 7&7 does the same as you, and does 4 extended days a month (not contractually allowed, but for the sake of argument) would make $166,431.

Holding water for you now?

 

[RCA]

Wow you guys have offically turned this into the regional section.

 

[CA1900]

Nah, nobody's called anybody else a scab yet.

 

[Stinkbug]

Logic and math vessel....I love it Have to remember that one. Anyone who would argue that you guys don't have a better total package now is certainly in denial. There's always room for improvement at CS but as I said before I do think they're trying...things have only gotten better from the day I came on board...

It doesn't hold water with you because you've got some cracks in your logic and math vessel.

So in a month where you are working 17 days on the 7&7, if you work 4 OT days, that would be 21 days of work. Another way of looking at it is as gunfyter said. 18-day = 216 workdays. 7&7 = 182 workdays. 4 OT days/month = 48 days. 182 + 48 = 230. 216 - 230 = 14 extra days per year. Or 230/12 = 19.17 days/month, not 18.

Let's take your example for a minute: "If I worked 4 OT days/month (which would be your 18 day) that is $143,747 at 10 years."

If a 10-yr NJA captain were on the 18-day, and worked 14 extended days a year to equal your 7&7 OT guy for the year, he'd make an additional $14,104, added to his base salary of $145,072 would make it $159,176 without after midnights, holidays, or overtime. You'd still be $15k in the hole. BTW, do you get after midnight, holiday, or overtime pay?

Or, an NJA 10-yr captain on 7&7 does the same as you, and does 4 extended days a month (not contractually allowed, but for the sake of argument) would make $166,431.

Holding water for you now?