The Comair strike, another perspective..

[Marko Ramius]

Ever get that feeling that we are all acting like crabs in a barrell somethimes? 9/11 seems to have intensified that quite a bit.

 

[rjcap]

Little Bubba,

I'll take a shot at your comment regarding quality of product.

ASA product is Delta product. If Delta wanted to improve customer service down in here in good ole Atlanta they could spend the money and hire decent people.

I have lived in Cincinnati and spent time in CVG. I agree customer service is better but that is due to the demographic of the area. Atlanta does not have the number of employable people that CVG does and won't for many years. If Delta (ASA) wants to really improve the quality of the product here in ATL they will have to either raise compensation or bring customer service reps from other locations.

 

[skydiverdriver]

Dear Mr Sig,
You take a lot of trouble to answer my questions, and I appreciate that. I'm just wondering why you leave some alone, but I guess that's up to you. You asked if the rjdc or comair mec did the pid, and that was the comair mec. Only an ALPA MEC can ask for a policy implementation with the union. However, since it was turned down (illegally in my opinion), and ALPA cannot sue itself, it took a group of non-MEC pilots to start litigation, thus the rjdc. You ask why I don't put this as my opinion, and I ask, why does it matter? Why not answer the question, whether it's my opinion or not? You ask us why we voted to strike on our own, well we did, but we weren't on our own, after your company purchased us. We voted to strike before we were owned by DAL, and went on strike afterward. That made us a part of YOUR airline. Also, we did vote no, twice, but our MEC asked us to vote yes on the last one. Many people did, and we had to, in my opinion, because of the lack of help we were getting from you and yours. I'm not angry about it though, as we took a risk with some illegal actions, as you would have if you had helped more. We were willing to do it, and you weren't. I also agree that you were in a difficult position with your own negotiations going on, but again, it should have been a team effort. I'm not saying that anything different could have happened, I'm just saying that nobody should ask us what more we could have done. WE did a lot. You might ask what more YOU could have done to help.

For the guy who wonders why I brought it up, it's because it's going to happen again, and people need to know what happened. ASA is coming up soon, and our hands will be tied, as we have a no-strike/no handbilling clause. And, of course the injunction was dropped after the strike. What does that have to do with the fact that we still did all we could? Did the fact that it was illegal stop us, or keep us from getting the proffer?

 

[skydiverdriver]

to rjflyer,

Please explain what I, or any Comair pilot is doing to take your advancement away? Are you saying that we are expanding because we were forced into this contract, and now make "regional" standard pay? Perhaps you are confusing what Delta, ASA and Comair MANAGEMENT are doing with what our PILOTS are doing. They control the marketing and aircraft allocation. We were fighting for industry standard pay and work rules. I don't see what I did to take your advancement away.

And the reason Delta pilots are being furloughed is their own greed. We tried to help you with that, and you refused to even talk about it. Your senior pilots also turned down a reduction in hours to help the junior guys. I guess you don't take care of your own either, do you?

 

[ifly4food]

Re: to rjflyer,

And the reason Delta pilots are being furloughed is their own greed. We tried to help you with that, and you refused to even talk about it. Your senior pilots also turned down a reduction in hours to help the junior guys. I guess you don't take care of your own either, do you?

That's a pretty bold statement, even for you. Have you been enjoying a little too much "holiday cheer"?

 

[RJFlyer]

SDD-

I said the Comair pilots are "costing me the advancement you are now enjoying," not "taking it away." A subtle difference, but different nonetheless. This is a fact, due to the "all or nothing," "whatever it takes" strike you undertook. Delta is making **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed sure it doesn't happen again - giving our routes, and expansion that should be ours, to you so Delta is not hamstrung again by a strike. You (the Comair pilots - and Delta management as well) caused this, all for what amounted to industry parity, not an industry standard.

Re: customer service at ASA vs. Comair, rjcap is right - the demographic (read 'work ethic') in ATL sucks. The area around the airport is nasty. If you're ever there, go to a fast food restaurant. The people working there are the same hiring pool that ASA has to draw from.

As an example, I went into the McDonalds near the ASA GO one day. There was one other person there waiting for their food. There were about 14 people "working" there that day, most of whom were grab-assing and laying on the counters. I ordered my food, and 15 minutes later was able to sit down and eat it. "Fast" food? And does the manager care that the service sucked? No, because they promoted from within.

 

[rjcap]

RJ Flyer,

One thing I wanted to mention was the difference in the operations at DFW (ASA) and ATL (ASA). It is a completely different expereince to fly from DFW than it is from ATL. The ramp in ATL is an absolute mess where as the DFW operation is typically top notch.

Is this a dempgraphic question or is ASA better managed in DFW than ATL ???

You tell me.

 

[Broke in CVG]

First of all, as a pilot, you are well aware that we don't get to pick our routes.

You said, "Comair pilots are costing me the advancement you are now enjoying."

Comair received its first two planes this month since Feb 00. How many of our CRJs did ASA take???? Did we ever get them back? No. How many planes did Skywest take? Skywest has taken routes from ASA and Comair. As well, ACA is running Dork jets out of CVG. Although, I heard last night that we are having to take over some of the routes as they can't keep up.

Secondly, ASA has had a dismal record just handling what they have.... Flight completions consistently at the bottom of the list of DCI carriers and last weeks on-time performance was a whopping 63.6% for ASA. (Comair - 90.3%).

Delta is desperately trying to milk the RJ cash cow. Even with the ASA contract next year, they will use their assets in every way possible to make money.

Are they doubling up the carriers to prevent a strike by ASA, that is probably only a small part of the reason. After all, we all know that the ASA pilots don't have the cajones to strike. As well, if you walk from ASA there is no place for you to go now..... the Comair strike wouldn't have happened post 9-11 and Delta knows that an ASA strike won't happen either.

I'll be the first to admit that we (the Comair pilots group) lost way more that we ever received in the new contract. My retro check is almost exactly equal to the taxes I am going to have to pay on the 1099 from the strike benefit check.

It amazes me the immaturity displayed by pilots that think it's a "turf war", especially when Delta is in control of the routes. Go to work and do your job with a smile. At least the engines stop whining when they get to the gate.

 

[RJFlyer]

"At least the engines stop whining..." That's a good one. And you are right on a lot of issues. Sorry, had to jump on the whining bandwagon when skydiverdriver started this.

Not having the 'cajones' to strike has nothing to do with it - you said it yourself, post-911 economics and the state of the industry will probably nip that in the bud.

As for on-time performance, obviously the largest part of our operations flies from our weakest link - the ATL hub and its attendant shortcomings. And don't think that now that CMR flies in/out of ATL, that that stellar on-time performance won't suffer.

That's it. Done whining now.

 

[FL000]

Hey Broke,

We really don't need the Comair/ASA bond coming apart at the seams. To take cheap shots with our on-time performance (or lack thereof) and for SDD to say that we didn't help during the strike (I personally wrote out 3 checks) is not only out of line but plays right into management hands. So zip it, both of you.

Plus, RJ flyer is right. As soon as you start flying significant blocks of time out of Atlanta, your on-time performance will go the way of the blue water.

 

[Morning Wood]

SDD,
I have to say I'm not very impressed with your logic and a little hurt by your acccusations.
You know that ASA and Delta have no strike clauses. It would have been illegal for us to strike along side you or take any other job action against our company.
Ask the APA what can happen when you violate the RLA... didn't they get fined/sued for a total of $40mil? That worked out to about $40,000 per pilot. Ouch.
And with "Dubbya the Unionbuster" in the White house now, all bets are off.


"Dubbya the Unionbuster"? I wonder if you remember who
was in the White House when the American/APA showdown
happened? I don't recall ANY unions being busted since
George W. took office. All I've seen are unions (with the
exception of the Comair pilots) receving "industry leading"
raises.

 

[Broke in CVG]

All I am trying to say is that Comair is about to undertake it's largest expansion to date and for that the pilots are excited.

Contract negotiation or not, ASA is more than likely to do the same. Be patient, come spring time ASA will probably have many, many new anouncements! Everything I have read from Airline analysts have stated that the "real money" is in North/South routes on the East Coast. Salt Lake has been a losing proposition since they opened the hub there. Salt Lake isn't large enough to support it's own traffic and East/West traffic has not been a money maker. Apparently Delta is to receive a large amount of business in the form of charters for the Olympics this Feb, and the fate of Salt Lake will be determined after the Winter Games.

It seems that Delta has begun to clean house here at Comair.

Nov 14th - David Siebenburgen, CEO of Delta Connection Inc., is retiring from his post, effective immediately

David Siebenburgen and several VP old timers at Comair have been put out to pasture (acutally "retired, effective immediately" -- you have to love how Delta worded it in their press releases). Seibs was the ego for Comair --- he still thought it was his "baby" and is probably the first step in Delta's ability to do what they please with Comair, possibly even a first step towards a single DCI.

Be nice to each other... for we may very well be DCI together, perhaps sooner than we might think. It gets cold up here in CVG, you guys will love it!

 

[TWA Dude]

If I may add a little outside perspective. Delta owns Comair/ASA, USAir owns Piedmont/Allegheny/PSA, AMR owns AA/AE/TWA. As an ALPA member I supported the Comair strike financially, and as a former commuter dog I supported them in spirit as well. I think it's unrealistic for a wholly-owned carrier to expect the mainline pilots to support them just because management bought them. The pilots of Delta had nothing to with the Comair purchase, so why should they be expected to go out of their way to help?

We're all one big happy ALPA family, right? Wrong. ALPA National supports it's money flow, and that means the regionals aren't getting full representation. For those unaware, the TWA pilots have been treated like the lame-ducks that we are. ALPA National has been stingy with money and practically non-existent with support for our integration needs. Of course they have their eye on wooing the APA back, and they've spent over $50,000 this year towards that goal. Very few AA pilots are interested in ALPA.

Let's face it: we only have ourselves to count on.

 

[skydiverdriver]

TWAdude, I totally agree with you. Delta mainline pilots did not have to help us in any way, and we are grateful for the things they did do. However, they complain that we take away their routes, and are a low-cost alternative to their jets. I don't understand why they complain about us, when they had a chance to help much more than they did.

FL000, thank you very much for the three checks, and when and if you ever strike, that will be the extent of any help you will receive from me. I just hope it will be enough, as it was not in our case. Thanks for trying.

I looked up union in my dictionary, and it said "something formed by combining parts or members" and a confederation of independent parts or individuals for some common purpose. I believe that Delta, ASA and Comair pilots all have a common purpose, and we could do a lot more by working together than we ever will accomplish separately. We tried to make that happen, but mainline pilots only seem to care about money.

I also like the arguement that ALPA spent more on the Comair strike than we paid in dues. I know this is obvious, but don't you think our dues would go up if we were paid a reasonable wage? It's not just about money. It's about doing the right thing for the right reasons.

 

[TWA Dude]

However, they complain that we take away their routes, and are a low-cost alternative to their jets. I don't understand why they complain about us, when they had a chance to help much more than they did.

It's Delta management that's shifting flying to small jets, mainline pilots feel threatened, and regional pilots are a much easier target to pick on. You and I both know that small jets have caused a paradigm shift at the regionals, but most mainline guys still see them purely as stepping stones. Adding to the problem is that for many pilots, if not most, the regionals ARE a stepping stone. A divided workgroup is easy prey for management.

Call it stingyness, selfishness, arrogance, short-sightedness, or whatever. But until recently most majors haved enjoyed massive growth and pilots have gotten used to it. No one wants to give up anything. In the end management always wins. Like many I forsee further blurring of the distinction between majors and regionals. If USAir starts fying small jets that'll mark the beginning. The One List advocates have time on their side.