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The Comair strike, another perspective..

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skydiverdriver

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
869
Now that things are a bit different, and I've had the chance to hear a lot of people's opinions on our recent strike, I think I will let some of you know about some of the things that happened. I know this will make some of you angry, but I would just ask you to not take it personally, as your airline's MEC or management may be to blame, and not individual pilots.

Comair had a chance to change the industry. We had the most unified, and dedicated pilot group in the world on one side, and a very ruthless and intellegent group of managers on the other. We probably would never have had to strike if Delta had not purchased Comair, but by the time that happend we were almost three years past our amendable date, and it was way to far along to stop.

We also had a lot of support. We received letters and checks from pilots around the world, as well as other interested parties like Sporty's Pilot Shop, and many others. For this we are grateful. Delta set up phone banks and made sure they didn't fly any of our struck work. We thank them for their efforts. However, many feel it was the least they could do. Ideally, we were part of Delta, and they should have been on strike too. I know, as soon as I said that you Delta pilots thought, "well, no Delta pilot should have to lose his job for a Comair pilot." And, I would agree. I don't want any pilot to lose his job. But at least they could have had a write up campaign, or a weekend sick out, or something more than just not flying "struck work." Many people also feel that every flight Delta flew was struck work. We asked for Delta MEC's help when we proposed the Policy Implimentation Date on ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy. Now, that is another subject, but if we were Continental, then they would have merged us and been on strike with us. Again, we do appreciate the help, but walking the picket line when you have a good paying job is quite a bit different from walking one while making strike pay that could be taken away.

Also, the ASA pilots were asked to do informational picketing. I heard people on this board complaining, why should we do this on our day off? Well, the reason you have a day off is that you have a job. I even had friends at ASA tell me they had a "no lose situation." If Comair did well and got a good deal, they would too. If Comair went away, they would get their routes. Do you realize what you are saying? I'm not sure that they do. We had a once in a lifetime chance here, and you had an opportunity to help out. And, many did, with money and other support, but again, it wasn't quite enough, was it? Now if ASA decides to have a work action, Comair pilots will not be able to help, since we have a no-strike clause in our contract. We will only be able to send money, just like they did. We can't even do the informational picketing that the ASA guys were complaining about. It was to help yourselves, guys.

I keep hearing people say that the regionals should work harder to raise their standards of living, and make them less likely to take away mainline jobs. I agree with that, but honestly, what more could we have done? I sat at home for three months this summer. Has a Delta pilot ever had to do that? Again, dont' take this personally, as I'm glad you have never had to strike. However, you must also understand that you won't know what it is like to strike until you have walked a mile in my shoes.

Again, we all appreciate the help that we received. I know that you are thinking it would have been illegal for ASA or Delta to do any more than they did. Well, Comair pilots were given an injuncture (sp?) for their alleged illegal writeup campaign. So, again I say, what more could we have done?
 
Huh, what are you talking about?

The only people to blame are the people who voted for settlement offer III. If I recall it was 64% of the pilot group.

We had a "real" (remember that) chance of getting a breakthrough contract. We ended up getting a measly raise and rigs that I hear the company hasn't found a way to track and pay pilots for.

All we had to do is trust and rely on ourselves, not Delta, or ASA.
My friends that voted yes told me "I just need more jet time than I am outta here", "I really need to start paying my credit cards down"etc. etc. You have heard them all I am sure.

I voted NO then I packed my bags and left for CMH. You can't blame anyone else except yourself.
 
Thinking

There is some flawed thinking here.

First of all, what is the role that regionals play. They are for market development. By their nature, they need to cost less than mainline both from an aircraft and costs standpoint. It really has nothing to do with taking jobs, ideally every market would start at the 180 passenger level but it does not. Regionals allow you to get into the game or maitain a presence at a cost you can afford. If the costs get out of whack with that, you are in fact discouaging the program that leads to more mainline jobs.

Secondly, there was not going to be a break through contract here. This misjudgement is what lead to the length of the strike. What was going to happen is that no major would ever buy a regional again. All the flying would have gone to other regionals. Check Continental wanting to spin off COEX. Delta was not going to give in period. It was that simple.
 
Publisher is correct, that there was more to it. Hoever, I do not completely agree with bebop. I too voted no, but I feel that the main two reasons that many voted yes was because the MEC told them to, and they believed that the company would go under. I personally didn't care if it went under, as that was the chance I was willing to take. I also don't understand why the mec voted 100% to accept the third offer.

But, you say you don't understand bebop. Are you saying that help from ASA and Delta and ALPA national would have done no good at all? Do you think it was Comair pilots against Comair management, with no input from Delta Management? Did you hear Leo Mullin's comments about the strike being unfourtunate, and he wished he had not made some mistakes that he did? I don't understand why you think that we are an island, and nobody else could have helped. I agree that the yes vote made no sense, but we did strike for three months. That's a new record for any "regional." I guess I dont understand what you mean.
 
First of all, what is the role that regionals play. They are for market development.

I disagree.

Initially, the RJ's were for market development.

Once mainline saw how profitable the RJ was, that role changed. Delta, and any "major," would have an entire fleet of RJ's--and their associated lower-paid pilots--if it could.

Take a look at the way the market is headed; it's not just because of 9/11. With the numbers of RJ's that are on order--nationwide and worldwide--it's clear that the RJ is not limited to market development.
 
Actually, I think publisher is way off on his analysis. RJs would make more money than mailine jets, even with parity of scale for the crews. Comair's profit margin was about 24% before Delta bought them, the highest of any airline in the world. Even if we got everything we wanted, it still would have been over 16%, much higher than the profit Delta makes. So, if Delta started purchasing RJ's and having their own mainline pilots fly them at mainline rates (for that size aircraft) they would still purchase a bunch of them because they are the right size for certain markets. Then Delta would become the leader since the other majors are restricted by scope on what small jets they can buy.

It doesn't matter why they use RJ's or who flies them. What matters is that RJ pilots do the same job as mailine pilots, with the same passengers, and they deserve the same compensation and respect. That is the only way we are going to take care of the worry that RJ's will take away mainline jobs. My point was that the other involved parties could have done much more to help than they did.
 
While I'm not certain as to the meaning of the letter (Management Executive Committee?) I do know that the MEC is a body elected from the ranks of the labor group being represented to represent the interests of that group in its dealings with the management of a company.
 
Granted this is baited...but I'll bite. Debate is a healthy thing.


skydiverdriver said:
Now that things are a bit different, and I've had the chance to hear a lot of people's opinions on our recent strike, I think I will let some of you know about some of the things that happened. I know this will make some of you angry, but I would just ask you to not take it personally, as your airline's MEC or management may be to blame, and not individual pilots.


No offense taken.....but it couldn't be that YOUR airline's MEC and their politics had anything to do with it?

Comair had a chance to change the industry. We had the most unified, and dedicated pilot group in the world on one side, and a very ruthless and intellegent group of managers on the other. We probably would never have had to strike if Delta had not purchased Comair, but by the time that happend we were almost three years past our amendable date, and it was way to far along to stop.

With this I agree with you 100% The Unity Comair pilots displayed was amazing.

However, many feel it was the least they could do. Ideally, we were part of Delta, and they should have been on strike too.


When you say many, I really think that is a cop-out. By posting this message, while others may have had this opinion, I think what you're really trying to say is YOU think DAL pilots should have also struck. We'll examine this a little further, but lets take the emotion out of it. How would this have been legal under the RLA?



I know, as soon as I said that you Delta pilots thought, "well, no Delta pilot should have to lose his job for a Comair pilot." And, I would agree. I don't want any pilot to lose his job.

If the DAL pilots had stuck for Comair, it would have been an illegal strike (whereas the Comair strike was perfectly legal as they had been released by the goverment to do so). So any pilot that didn't show up to work could be fired. There would be no back to work agreement because the courts and the goverment would say it was an illegal strike.


But at least they could have had a write up campaign, or a weekend sick out, or something more than just not flying "struck work."

DALPA and 49 other pilots were already getting sued by Delta for an alleged no overtime campain...so do you really think that DALPA would openly sponsor an illegal sickout in the midst of their own contract negotiations and efforts to get released themselves?! I think the APA set the industry precident with thier multi million dollar fine when it comes to illegal sick outs. What would you do if you were a leader of DALPA?



Many people also feel that every flight Delta flew was struck work.

Again...this seems to me like you just don't have the courage to say that this is your opinion. So why bother with the post?

We asked for Delta MEC's help when we proposed the Policy Implimentation Date on ALPA's merger and fragmentation policy.

When you say "we" here.... I'm curious.... do you mean the Comair MEC or do you mean the RJDC? Again...another subject for another thread...this I agree.


but if we were Continental, then they would have merged us and been on strike with us.

As a former IACP dues paying member, this is incorrect. There would have been no merger between CAL and I'm assuming you mean CoEx in a similar situation. Would CAL strike for CoEx? Maybe... but the BIG BIG thing you're missing here with your insinuations is that BOTH the CAL AND the COEX contracts allow for each other to honor the picket lines . This was in neither the Delta contract OR the Comair contract. Had Delta honored Comair picket lines...it would be illegal. If CAL honors CoEx lines, it's legal. It's that simple. There is also the benifit at CAL/CoEx of having a single MEC (this is also how the IACP was run...thus written into the ALPA merger) You're also making the large assumption that mainline LEC members would vote to honor a CoEx picket line....given CAL's history with strikes, not to mention the IAH Capt. rep is a Scab (yes a scab got voted into an ALPA office) it's a very big IF. Go ask some older CoEx folks about "One Comany, One Signing Date" in '97. Then you'll see how much mainline support they have.

But now DAL (but not ASA) does have somthing in the new contract to help:

During a labor dispute involving a codesharing partner of the Company:
1. the Company will not perform training of pilots for service as employees of the code sharing partner (replacement pilots) in connection with a labor dispute, and
2. an affiliate will not perform training of pilots for service as employees of the code sharing partner (replacement pilots) other than itself.

So now ASA doesn't have to worry about scabs being trained (they just have to worry about Skywest taking the routes)... thanks to the DAL mainline contract.


Again, we do appreciate the help, but walking the picket line when you have a good paying job is quite a bit different from walking one while making strike pay that could be taken away......
Also, the ASA pilots were asked to do informational picketing. I heard people on this board complaining.......

Man, the more you write, the more sour grapes I hear. The bottom line is you voted yes to strike your airline. If you didn't think that you could win the battle on your own, why do it? Your strike also negativly affected the bottom lines of our airlines, DAL & ASA , yet we supported your action. That fact alone speaks volumes about the ASA & DAL MEC's and pilots ..... PLUS the financial and logistical help above and beyond the moral support, yet you still point fingers and place blame. Amazing.

I agree with that, but honestly, what more could we have done?

Um, take a lesson from the CoEx pilots in '97 and vote No?

I sat at home for three months this summer. Has a Delta pilot ever had to do that?

I know of 400 pilots that have been sitting at home since November 1 - and will be out a lot longer than 3 months without pay...no strike pay either - while your airline continues to hire and grow. Hmmm, grow, that means you personally benifit through quality of life (more lines/more seniority) and financially (upgrades) while DAL pilots are on the street. Since we didn't fly struck work OR grow during your strike, how did DAL pilots personally benifit from your lack of paycheck? Answer: They didn't.


Again, we all appreciate the help that we received.

Then how about sending a check to help a furloughed family this Christmas? I did.

Well, Comair pilots were given an injuncture (sp?) for their alleged illegal writeup campaign.

And as part of your back to work agreement for your LEGAL strike, those hostigages were reinstated (as promised by your MEC) and all lawsuits were dropped. Spare us the dramatics. DAL and ASA wouldn't have a leg to stand on in the courts because IT'S NOT IN THEIR CONTRACTS.


So, again I say, what more could we have done?

And I say again...your pilot group could've voted no if it's such a bad deal.


As you like to say...have a nice day.
 
Last edited:
bigr said:
Im a novice. I just want to know what MEC is?

thanks

Master Executive Council


Every ALPA carrier is made up this way:

Each base is given a council number (example, I belong to Council 047).

Each council has a certain number of representatives (usually 1 Captain rep, 1 First Officer rep, and 1 Second Officer rep if applicable)

These reps make up the LEC....Local Executive Council.

All the LEC's (for airlines with many bases) make up the MEC. The MEC also has seperate leaders to oversee the LEC structure.


Hope this helps....
 

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