The Arbitration

[becket]

Regardless of the backpack wearing junior AWA FO's rants, it's wrong to staple 1800 pilots to the bottom of the list. The fences should have been longer and the furloughees should have been slotted in.

slot in unemployed pilots? are you crazy. What can you really expect from a company whom you only worked for for two years and have been furloughed for almost six? time to move on.

 

[A350]

iflyhi:

I was hired in 89 and never furloughed until 2003. As I said, smarter guys than me are going to have to figure this out....so I don't have an answer to your question other than to say as it is written now, it disadvantages the AAA pilots for the duration of their careers.

The fact that you have FO's retiring still provides upward mobility....and puts you closer to the upgrade. You still will get the upgrade, and if it takes a year or two longer, you still get it. The way it stands now, I lose the widebody position and never recover it. And many NEVER upgrade even though absent this list, they would have finished out their careers on a high note.

Green:

The staple you say that would have happened had the AAA proposal gone through would not be a "staple" if there were conditions and restrictions placed on bidding going forward.....this is a staple for the east furloughees and there are NO restrictions. The 4 year fence is a farce. Further with age 65 coming, there is no fence at all.

Looking at my situation, is it reasonable to end up 780 numbers down the list at retirement and to lose things that were in my expectation forever, not just a delay?

Further, your comment about the AWA guys flying 747's......when did you get rid of them? That means anyone hired after that had no expectation of flying anything like that. And your assertion about that weakens your claim that a U guy had no expectations because of what MIGHT have happened.

A350

 

[iflyhigh]

A350:

You know that you can't save every pilot, next to impossible. I also don't advocate selling out the juniors guys either.

So why did your MEC not try to find something other than years of service? When I was furloughed from UAL, I was told, if a merger or buyout happens, and you are not on property you have no rights. The pilot group would try and protect you, but you are not here and don't have a say.

Why did they MEC not try and protect those furloughes, and unforunately, let the late 90's guys go......At least the senior guys, in the last 10 or less years of their career, (possible five more years now) on furlough would have been protected....

I know the this solution would of stank for the late 90's guys, but like I said, can't protect every guy not on the property.

Your MEC had to figure that the Arbitrator was not going to put 20 year fences in, like Republic got. That has turned out to be a mess.

Again, how far down the list do you want to protect, everyone??????

 

[Green]

A350:

You know that you can't save every pilot, next to impossible. I also don't advocate selling out the juniors guys either.

So why did your MEC not try to find something other than years of service? When I was furloughed from UAL, I was told, if a merger or buyout happens, and you are not on property you have no rights. The pilot group would try and protect you, but you are not here and don't have a say.


Your MEC had to figure that the Arbitrator was not going to put 20 year fences in, like Republic got. That has turned out to be a mess.

Again, how far down the list do you want to protect, everyone??????

Of course they did...The bottom line for AAA was to put several hundred Furloughed pilots senior to the MAJORITY of AWA captains, with conditions and restrictions that were all but a joke. That just goes to show how unreasonable the AAA expectations were. Now they fully expect Alpa National to throw aside the Constitution and by Laws and abrogate the award.

Regardless of how anybody feels about the award can you possibly imagine what throwing it out would do to Alpa National? If Prater makes a precendent of ignoring our union's constitution by throwing out a year of arbitration hearings and the resulting Binding Arbitration where does that leave us as a union? Will any future seniority arbitration ever stick if all you have to do is make a huge stink and picket national? What happens if they throw it out and the next arbitrator doesn't appreciate Prater's arrogance and gives AAA a worse deal? We would be going down a slippery path into the unknown. Seems crazy to risk our entire union to appease a group of PHL radicals.

 

[JT8D]

This merger (as expected) will NEVER WORK. Most of them don't and this one is worse than most.

If you know chemistry you know that oil and water will not solve with each other...you can stir... backward, forward, faster...doesn't make a difference...the two substances are so diametrically opposite to each other that they will not blend...not even a little bit for a short time...

Lots of people had raised eyebrows when this "merger" was made public. Most in the know said "WHAT?...How is that ever going to work?...It was sort of like billy bobs dime store buying KMART with billy bob saying "don't you folks worry none...everythangs gonna be alright... I runs my own store."

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I have a question for the AAA pilots out there. That means the AAA pilots: not Whiskey, HP, + rate, TWA dude, Grog or
Ed

Ed, can I post yet???:laugh:

 

[Fast43]

and yes, above awa junior FO's. What was there career expection going to be in an almost certain AWA bankruptcy without the merger?

Maybe you could Illuminate for us exactly what your career expectations at AAA were without this merger.

Our rumored "looming banckruptcy" does not carry the carreer ending promise that Liquidation does.

Liquidation.............could this be the Massive Attrition AAA guys are talking about??

 

[Fast43]

A350
The 4 year fence is a farce. Further with age 65 coming, there is no fence at all.


"Kinda Wrecks your rapid attrition claim as well"


A350
Looking at my situation, is it reasonable to end up 780 numbers down the list at retirement and to lose things that were in my expectation forever, not just a delay?



"Snap out of it...You weren't going to ever see them anyway, without the merger you would have had Liquidation. Ending up 780 numbers farther down the list at retirement seems like a decent alternative" However that is looking at it in a positive way, why is it you east guys can't see the positive side of still having a job in a career that a whole Flippin lot of people would love to have.

I guess its hard to see that when your doing overtime counting all the things you feel were owed and lost or should have had etc. You guys could prolly write a good country song.

 

[737 Pylt]

Ed, can I post yet???:laugh:

NO! You should be on the corner of 44th st. now going about your "handyman business!":laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Heard you and hpilot were getting a "float" ready for the parade!:blush:

737

 

[EdTeachLives!]

Yes Whiskey.....I got my answer for the most part. I am still wondering how the arbitrator put an unfurloughed '87 hire(s) behind a Cactus '03 hire if the facts are right?

I get the part about the furloughed guys and their placement. I don't get the decision on AAA's retirement numbers as it seems they don't capture the attrition they bring evenly.

Ed