The Arbitration

[AA717driver]

I'm sorry but if you are a 1989 USAir hire and you're sitting on furlough waiting for that big day when you get recalled and haven't gone out and gotten a better job, you deserve what you got.

And that's what you get for not paying attention to this F'ed up business for the past 18 years! TC

 

[JetMonkey]

You forgot me on your list!!! I feel so left out. :bawling:

 

[Green]

Green and Abe,

You both couldn't just shut up and color could you. Try sitting on your hands this time. You don't need to be stirring the crap just to make it stink. The AAA POV was all that was asked for so when you can't control yourselves like this all it does destroy your crediblity and hurt your case.

Ed

ouch.....but i don't like coloring Ed. I'm glad that you're working hard trying to solve the case...lol....

 

[A350]

My case is one of many....hired in 1989.....was supposed to retire in the top 50 of the AAA seniority list. Furloughed but with out a single new jet on the property for the next 20 years, I still end up @ #20 on the list and get to fly the 757/767 starting @ age 52 and the A330 starting at age 55. That is what attrition brings to the table.....a rapid progression up the list without any growth.

Now with the new list, I end up @ 800 or so. This makes it impossible to fly the A330 and even the 767 is questionable. Who will be taking my place? A West pilot who had no reasonable expectation of widebody flying sans the merger.

DOS was a reasonable point to merge the lists with the restrictions/fences in place, no West pilot would ever be displaced. The list as it is would be acceptable with larger, longer fences that preserve both groups pre merger expectations as far as attrition. It isn't the number on the list, it is where it places you 5, 10, and 15 years out. I would take the list as it is now with a larger fence on the widebodies as well as some way to protect my progression to where it was or even close to it. I think no matter how you slice it, going from # 20 to # 800 isn't even in the ballpark as far as a reasonable endgame.

Never before in seniority integrations have two lists at such opposite ends of the spectrum been placed together with such puny, ineffective fences.

A350

 

[AA717driver]

A350--I understand your reason for hanging around. But you would need 20 year fences to protect everyone. I just don't see any arbitrator doing that.

It was a crappy situation--forced marriage of two weak airlines with such lopsided seniority lists. TC

 

[vtwo]

What do you mean By "reasonable expectation" ?

Ther are no reasonable expectations when you are an employee. especially in aviation.
I don't buy the "reasonable expectations" argument.
Even the retired guys had reasonable expectation of the pensions they earned. now look how that worked out.

 

[Green]

My case is one of many....hired in 1989.....was supposed to retire in the top 50 of the AAA seniority list. Furloughed but with out a single new jet on the property for the next 20 years, I still end up @ #20 on the list and get to fly the 757/767 starting @ age 52 and the A330 starting at age 55. That is what attrition brings to the table.....a rapid progression up the list without any growth.

Now with the new list, I end up @ 800 or so. This makes it impossible to fly the A330 and even the 767 is questionable. Who will be taking my place? A West pilot who had no reasonable expectation of widebody flying sans the merger.

DOS was a reasonable point to merge the lists with the restrictions/fences in place, no West pilot would ever be displaced. The list as it is would be acceptable with larger, longer fences that preserve both groups pre merger expectations as far as attrition. It isn't the number on the list, it is where it places you 5, 10, and 15 years out. I would take the list as it is now with a larger fence on the widebodies as well as some way to protect my progression to where it was or even close to it. I think no matter how you slice it, going from # 20 to # 800 isn't even in the ballpark as far as a reasonable endgame.

Never before in seniority integrations have two lists at such opposite ends of the spectrum been placed together with such puny, ineffective fences.

A350

If you believe Parker's assertion that AWA would probably have had to restructure in BK then you also have to remember that he has stated multiple times that AAA would have certainly liquidated without the merger. He has leaked that AAA was in the process of liquidation when the merger was consumated. So your chances of retiring number 20 were slim to none. Those were the facts...

I have compassion for the terrible blows that AAA has taken but I don't buy the victim persona. You got the top 500 slots and nobody has moved backwards. Not bad for an airline on death's doorstep. I'm sure TWA pilots would have killed to get the same deal.

 

[eaglefly]

My case is one of many....hired in 1989.....was supposed to retire in the top 50 of the AAA seniority list. Furloughed but with out a single new jet on the property for the next 20 years, I still end up @ #20 on the list and get to fly the 757/767 starting @ age 52 and the A330 starting at age 55. That is what attrition brings to the table.....a rapid progression up the list without any growth.

Now with the new list, I end up @ 800 or so. This makes it impossible to fly the A330 and even the 767 is questionable. Who will be taking my place? A West pilot who had no reasonable expectation of widebody flying sans the merger.

DOS was a reasonable point to merge the lists with the restrictions/fences in place, no West pilot would ever be displaced. The list as it is would be acceptable with larger, longer fences that preserve both groups pre merger expectations as far as attrition. It isn't the number on the list, it is where it places you 5, 10, and 15 years out. I would take the list as it is now with a larger fence on the widebodies as well as some way to protect my progression to where it was or even close to it. I think no matter how you slice it, going from # 20 to # 800 isn't even in the ballpark as far as a reasonable endgame.

Never before in seniority integrations have two lists at such opposite ends of the spectrum been placed together with such puny, ineffective fences.

A350

Agree that U pilots should've gotten a better deal on widebody fences.

 

[The Victors]

Regardless of the backpack wearing junior AWA FO's rants, it's wrong to staple 1800 pilots to the bottom of the list. The fences should have been longer and the furloughees should have been slotted in.

 

[The Victors]

and yes, above awa junior FO's. What was there career expection going to be in an almost certain AWA bankruptcy without the merger?