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The air industry's worst nightmare

  • Thread starter Thread starter pb4ufly
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pb4ufly

Just a Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2001
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131
Just days ago, national security executives met secretly with airline CEOs to warn them that al-Qaida may be planning to fire shoulder-launched missiles at commercial jets in the U.S. There's virtually no defense.

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By Paul J. Caffera

The war on terror took an unsettling turn last week with the resurfacing of Osama bin Laden and the FBI's announcement that al-Qaida is planning "spectacular attacks ... [with] high symbolic value, mass casualties, severe damage to the U.S. economy, and maximum psychological trauma." The FBI identified the U.S. aviation industry as a prime target for al-Qaida, and although critics have complained the bulletin was vague, Salon has learned that in the days before it was issued, national security executives met secretly with top airline officials to discuss the risk that high-tech portable missiles might be used against commercial jets.

According to sources who attended it, the meeting was convened by the year-old Transportation Security Administration on the afternoon of Election Day, Nov. 5. It included Adm. James Loy, chief of the agency; President Bush's secretary of transportation, Norman Mineta; representatives of the Office of Homeland Security; and a group of 25 airline CEOs. Gathered in a secure conference room in the Department of Transportation Building in Washington, they heard evidence of the growing and intractable threat that shoulder-fired infrared-homing missiles pose to crowded commercial jets taking off and landing at U.S. airports.

Sources within the White House Office of Homeland Security and the Transportation Security Administration, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told Salon the conference was prompted in part by a recent Senior Executive Intelligence Brief prepared by the CIA, which alerted top Bush administration officials and selected military leaders that terrorists have likely smuggled shoulder-launch missiles into the United States in recent months.

The news was ominous for the millions of people who fly on American jets each year: Every commercial flight is susceptible to an attack from terrorists armed with launchers that are small, relatively easy to obtain and surgically accurate. And even after a decade of research at the federal Aviation Research Laboratory in New Jersey, neither the government nor the aviation industry can do much to mitigate the danger.
 
hmm...what does the military use to warn off things like that? flares of some sort?
 
Timebuilder the counter measures are public knowledge, whether its flares or the "Disco" ball that emits some sort of lasers.

I think the chance of this happening is rare and not that big of a deal.
 
I've never agreed with the idea that because sensitive or tactical information is public, it needs to be made more public.

I can't think of a really good reason to discuss this in a public forum, can you?
 
I dont think chances of this happening are rare...well, not after last year I dont...US supplied Afghans with these things in mid-80s and there's bound to be some left...they were pretty efficient against Russian choppers, so why not an even bigger (albeit faster) airliner on approach/takeoff? People smuggle all sort of sh!t into the US, so these would just be a drop in a bucket. Half these sonsofb!tches aint afraid to die in the name of jihad, so what do they stand to loose? And it seems as though these backwards cowards pride themselves the most on bringing down airplanes (probably some of the most complex machinery in the world, maybe thats why)

no?
 
ShawnC said:
I think the chance of this happening is rare and not that big of a deal.

Wow, Shawn... no offense, but pull your head out of the sand... this is a VERY real threat... I have worried about this for a long time, even pre-9/11... Very easy, quick and accurate... nothing complex about it...

14 1/2 months ago people would have said the twin towers being destroyed in just over 1 hour would have been considered crazy, foolish or some other kind of dillusion... well it happened, I saw the buildings fall with my own 2 eyes, right out the window... Something I would have never expected to really happen... and something I will NEVER forget!
 
Ok lets say that it can happen what are you going to do about it. Jink during final approach, have one of those disco balls under each engine and the APU (like AF1), have your passengers shoot emergency flares out the rear exit during final. Theres not much you can do, there are literally thousands of houses under the final approach of the runways, check every house before a plane flies over.

It's worrying about something that you can do little about. And chances are the aircraft will probally land, I heard a couple of engineers say that the engine will most likely break off, and the alititude required the aircraft would be on the ground before major fire damage would occur.
 
True, not much we can do regarding the threat in-flight, but we can at least increase people's awareness of the problem so that everyone would be more vigilant/less complacent? Granted, if you see someone standing with an RPG launcher just beneath the lead-in lights, with a 74 passing overhead, there's not a whole one can do...but at least give chase or call the cops:D
 
I could swear we just had this thread...a few days ago.

If it happens, it won't be the first time here.
 
"hmm...what does the military use to warn off things like that? flares of some sort?"

Let's see, drop some flares while performing a world class defensive reaction and then play tic-tac-toe with your wingman on the b@stards chest with an M61 shooting at a rate of 6,000 rounds per minute. The only problem is, it's difficult to tell who wins. Or better yet, a GAU-8. Of course then you wouldn't be leaving a move for your wingman since there wouldn't be anything left after the first bullet.

Too bad an airliner doesn't have those options.

Timebuilder...relax bro. Chaff and flares are hardly secret weapons.
 
You're right.

I don't want to see the mention of other countermeasures which may not be so well known.
 
ShawnC said:
Ok lets say that it can happen what are you going to do about it. Jink during final approach, have one of those disco balls under each engine and the APU (like AF1), have your passengers shoot emergency flares out the rear exit during final. Theres not much you can do, there are literally thousands of houses under the final approach of the runways, check every house before a plane flies over.

It's worrying about something that you can do little about. And chances are the aircraft will probally land, I heard a couple of engineers say that the engine will most likely break off, and the alititude required the aircraft would be on the ground before major fire damage would occur.


Who said anything about landing? Takeoff would be a MUCH more likely scenario... fully loaded with fuel, very high power setting (lots of IR signature) and an engine loss on take off is much more critical than on landing... Remember "they" want "spectacular", not inconvienience...

So now a fully loaded 777 going JFK to Asia... max fuel and full of pax... hows it fly on one...? you say "Certified to fly on one"... ok, now the one you lost was a 93,000 lb thrust engine that exploded, taking out many items on its wing... Things probably won't have such a "routine" outcome...

You are right, there really isn't much we can do to prevent this, but saying "it isn't likely" to happen is simply denying the inevitable...
 
To my recollection, I have, nor ever have had, a knowledge of whatever it is you're talking about, nor ever will I....What were we talking about again?

On a serious note, I doubt a group of bored pilots on a message board are going to threaten our national security. Those that know of such things know about them for a reason and they are smart enough to not risk sharing a prison cell with a 250 pound lifer named Bruce.

Now lets talk countermeasures for that missile shot in that stupid movie with Owen whats-his-name from Zoolander. That was one b!tchin' missile.
 
You are right, there really isn't much we can do to prevent this, but saying "it isn't likely" to happen is simply denying the inevitable...
.........................................................................................................

It is inevitable, and every able body american should arm themselves and prepair to protect this great land from anyone who has the intent to distroy it!
This could be simple propaganda but these people are breeding fear into our lives with things like this.
I'm not implying that we all become cowboy vigilantes but we can't just set on our duff and watch this thing go down. This is a Holy War! and like Stormin Norman said, GOD has the authority to forgive them..We have the responsibility to arange the meeting!

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ALL WHO STAND BESIDE HER
 
Come on...anything you all know the enemy knows, and has known for a long time. That is assuming you haven't signed a non-disclosure statement with the government if you worked with sensitive information either as a contractor or active duty member of the military. Y'all act like you have some big secret of significant intelligence value. Maybe you do. In that case, it is your responsibility to keep it to yourself. Otherwise, we all have freedom of speech. This business of people telling others on this board and/or posts being deleted because someone doesn't like or agree with their idea(s) is a precise goal of the terrorists. Heck, the government wants us to spy on our neighbors and report "anything suspicious," the FBI wants to give elected members of congress lie detector tests, the Patriot Act allows the government to spy on our home and business computers, folks are afraid to say anything regarding existing security weaknesses, etc. Why don't we all curl up in a corner and be afraid...very afraid. PHUQ that bullship. America must respond to this attack on our soil with a "measured and timely" response to this aggression. Who cares if we are viewed as Imperialists by citizens and governments in the Middle East. Better than being labeled defeated. Tactical nuclear weapons (nobody takes THAT much care of a real bomb for those who have never seen one up close and personal - you could shave in one) must be considered as a possible solution. After all...the last time we were attacked on our soil we used a much much bigger version of a peacekeeper and world order was re-established and has been maintained ever since. Get over your bad selves. Our entire civilization is in jeopardy...the sooner everyone gets pizzed about that the stronger we will collectively be as a nation. But that's just my opinion. How many thousands of reasons do we have to kick the living daylights out of the radiator heads?
 
here's a real threat

I kinda liked the scene in the Bruce Willis movie (Diehard?) where the departing 747 full of bad guys and trailing a stream of fuel from a bullet hole was departing, but Bruce saved the day by igniting the trail of fuel which burned all the way up to the departing 747 and blew it up. of course that was good since the 747 was full of bad guys that needed to be blown up
 
I hadn't seen that movie yet! Why'd you have to spoil it for me?

Now that I think about it, that has to be one of the most ridiculous things to come from Hollywood yet.

I'm pleased to see my decision to stop watching action movies since being insulted by that no-story movie "Speed" has once again been validated.

Throw in some explosions and special effects...there's no need for a well-written story.
 

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