Thanks AirTran MEC!

[Dan Roman]

You really don't think Delta is less vulnerable now that they have gone through BK court and slashed wages, dramatically cleaned up their balance sheet and merged with NWA? You really don't think UAL/CAL merged and reorganized are not stronger? I'm not debating who is better or worse, you are bringing that up, I'm just saying they are not as vulnerable as they were in the past.
You really think UAL of today is just as bloated and inefficient as it was in the 90's???

 

[Secret Squirrel]

The employees sure are not as happy and both airlines are at the bottom of customer satisfactions surveys and at the top of the most hated companies in America. So you got that going for you.

 

[Dan Roman]

My take on the whole industry is the music has stopped and everyone has a chair. In the past airlines fought for market share and the weak ones disappeared. A lot of airlines are gone, the few left will survive, I don't think anyone is in danger of shutting down anymore. Hell, even USAir, with all their problems is profitable of late and AMR has over 6 billion in cash.
In the LCC type of flying, Virgin, JetBlue and Frontier all provide an excellent product and have lower costs than the legacies or SWA. They are sort of in the position SWA was in the 80's and 90's.

 

[Dan Roman]

The employees sure are not as happy and both airlines are at the bottom of customer satisfactions surveys and at the top of the most hated companies in America. So you got that going for you.

Which is nice.
Again,you are trying to turn it into a who is better. I'm just saying the legacies are not as vulnerable as they once were.

 

[Britpilot]

In the LCC type of flying, Virgin, JetBlue and Frontier all provide an excellent product and have lower costs than the legacies or SWA. They are sort of in the position SWA was in the 80's and 90's.

Well that explains why Frontier went into bankruptcy, lower costs, who knew?
Virgin is propped up with cash from sir Richard.
JetBlue does good however.
To suggest that Frontier is in the sort of position that SWA was in the 80's and 90's is ridiculous.

 

[Dan Roman]

Well that explains why Frontier went into bankruptcy, lower costs, who knew?
Virgin is propped up with cash from sir Richard.
JetBlue does good however.
To suggest that Frontier is in the sort of position that SWA was in the 80's and 90's is ridiculous.

Actually I said sort of. They all have potential to grow and be as successful as SWA is now in the future.

 

[DonVerita]

Just for the record...wasn't JetBlue given a $300 Million cash infusion last year by Lufthansa?

 

[redflyer65]

You really don't think Delta is less vulnerable now that they have gone through BK court and slashed wages, dramatically cleaned up their balance sheet and merged with NWA? You really don't think UAL/CAL merged and reorganized are not stronger? I'm not debating who is better or worse, you are bringing that up, I'm just saying they are not as vulnerable as they were in the past.
You really think UAL of today is just as bloated and inefficient as it was in the 90's???

Dan,

I agree with some of the things you post, and Delta is in better shape in some areas than it was before. But the bottom line on all these mergers...DAL/NW, CAL/UAL, AA/? is that its the same management team doing the same things! Yea, they went into bankruptcy to shed pilot cost, contract, etc...but what's different?

As a matter of fact, on the DL side they are finding that 'right sizing' the plane for the routes is okay when you have may 5 fleet types, but it's a massive drag on the bottom line when you have 9, and all the parts and training associated with that operation. Hopefully they will get it under control. How many hundreds of pilots are sitting around every single month getting min guarantee waiting for training? Or sitting on reserve not flying? This is great for the pilot, but in the end it's horrible for the companies bottom line. And their bottom line is your bottom line, but most legacy pilots don't care. Not saying that's you, but the majority fit this mentality.

I think Delta is one of the better legacies to work at, but just hope they don't continue down the same road they've been of X number of years. Leasing everything, outsourcing everything, and poor customer service. Time will tell.

 

[Dan Roman]

Dan,

I agree with some of the things you post, and Delta is in better shape in some areas than it was before. But the bottom line on all these mergers...DAL/NW, CAL/UAL, AA/? is that its the same management team doing the same things! Yea, they went into bankruptcy to shed pilot cost, contract, etc...but what's different?

As a matter of fact, on the DL side they are finding that 'right sizing' the plane for the routes is okay when you have may 5 fleet types, but it's a massive drag on the bottom line when you have 9, and all the parts and training associated with that operation. Hopefully they will get it under control. How many hundreds of pilots are sitting around every single month getting min guarantee waiting for training? Or sitting on reserve not flying? This is great for the pilot, but in the end it's horrible for the companies bottom line. And their bottom line is your bottom line, but most legacy pilots don't care. Not saying that's you, but the majority fit this mentality.

I think Delta is one of the better legacies to work at, but just hope they don't continue down the same road they've been of X number of years. Leasing everything, outsourcing everything, and poor customer service. Time will tell.

I totally agree with you here!
Quite frankly, I give you guys a lot of credit for your management raising the industry bar in the area of how to treat employees. Whenever a case needs to be made, in negotiations or elsewhere, that treating the employees well proves to be a better investment than "the beatings will continue till the moral improves!" the example always used is SWA.
Without your example out there that treating your employees well pays handsome dividends, who knows what the less enlightened management teams might be trying.
So thanks for that AND the 3 2 1! Some places extend it to me too even though I am not SWA.

 

[GuppyWN]

More places might if you'd call it 1-2-3 instead of 3-2-1. It's not a rocket launch, it's a booze discount!

Gup