Thank You Ralph Nader!

[CCDiscoB]

Your decision to run for President will guarantee George Bush a reelection. That can only be good news for the airline industry.

 

[urflyingme?!]

Ralph Nader, america's best republican campign worker!

I don't really agree with what he does, but he has some good points... A shame that he's doing more harm than good for his own cause.

 

[sqwkvfr]

He said that he's tired of America being held hostage to the two-party system and thinks there needs to be multiple parties.

I couldn't agree more....if it happens that the conglomeration of special interest groups that is the democrat party is split, the GOP will rule this country for at least the next fifty years.

AHHH, I can see it now....former lawyers delivering pizzas for a living, insurance costs diminishing, cheap fuel, less dependence on foriegn oil, health care that we can actually afford, thousands of dead or jailed terrorists, reasonably priced personal aircraft.....

Yup, GO RALPH!!!

 

[mar]

Nader's issues

Read them for yourself here

 

[jarhead]

On Nader

I voted for GWB in 2000. I feel betrayed by him now. Ralph Nader will not just get the votes of some Democrats. I have been a conservative and a Republican for most of my life. Ralph will get my vote this November. I see nothing attractive with John Kerry. With just Bush and Kerry, I see a choice between tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum.

Jesse Ventura “shocked the world” in 2000 as an independent in Minnesota. Maybe Ralph can do it on the national scene. In any event, I will not vote for the lesser of two evils this time around. I watched Nader on Tim Russert’s show this morning, and I liked what he had to say.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Jesse Ventura “shocked the world” in 2000 as an independent in Minnesota.

.......and was chased out of St. Paul four years later by an angry mob. I know he didn't run for a second term, but he had something like a 30% approval rating and an unbelievable fiscal mess......lesson learned.

A good friend is a Minnesota State Trooper.....it's a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good thing "The Body" didn't need to call on them to protect him from the lynch crowd......they would have joined the group.

 

[jarhead]

Yea but....

Actually, Jesse Ventura did a fairly credible job in Minnesota as far as the fiscal end of his job. You are correct about him having a very low approval rating when he left office (probably why he chose not to stand for a second term as Gov). He vetoed more bills than any other Minnesota governor in history, and it was always over things he did not want to spend money on. Some vetoes were overridden, but many stood up.

His drop in popularity was mostly due to his super ego, and disdain for anyone who disagreed with him. He was a huge crybaby, and his relationship with the local media, both print and broadcast was horrible. But, he sure liked to get on the Jay Leno show, or on with Chris Matthews on the national media outlets.

The point is, the establishment Democrat and Republican machine politics in Minnesota took the electorate for granted, and it cost them. A professional ‘wrassler’ was now our governor. Maybe Ralph can to it too? He certainly has got to have better credentials than Jesse “The Body” Ventura.

 

[JJJ]

For an alternative the the Republican party check out the platform of the Constution Party.

Constution Party Platform

 

[MarineGrunt]

Re: On Nader

I voted for GWB in 2000. I feel betrayed by him now.

Not quite sure why you feel betrayed by him, but I'd suggest reading the book, "The Right Man" about his presidency. It's an inside look from one of his speech writers. He seems to give GWB an even amount of criticisim and praise. Also helps you understand 'the man' and the methods behind the madness.

Dubya '04.

 

[ShawnC]

Re: Re: On Nader

Not quite sure why you feel betrayed by him, but I'd suggest reading the book, "The Right Man" about his presidency. It's an inside look from one of his speech writers. He seems to give GWB an even amount of criticisim and praise. Also helps you understand 'the man' and the methods behind the madness.

Dubya '04.

Most people forget the conservative Nader, Ross Perot. He split the Republican vote during 1992, allowing Clinton to get into the White House.

Yes I know that these candidates do get cross over votes, but for the most part they split the votes of their closest party (Democrat for Nader) so that they lose key states.

 

[2000flyer]

The democratic party has been in denial and confusion for several years now, beginning with the senate and house. They still feel they are not to blame for the 2000 election loss.

To date we have the dem's blaming the following for their 2000 loss: Florida supreme court, US supreme court, Jeb Bush, Katherine Harris, Ralph Nader, etc. I believe the American people were sick and tired of Clintonesque politics, of which Al Gore was party too. They also saw what a bumbling idiot Al Gore is. Even today he holds no credibility in the party as Dean can attest to. He picks the coldest day in recent history in New York to spew his beliefs on global warming. Clinton got Clark in the race. How'd that work out? American's are much brighter than the democrats give them credit.

Mainly I, personally, feel the American people are finally seeing through the Democratic mantra of "for the average American." In truth, their as much for wealth and distinct class lines as anyone. How can you feel confident and trustful of a dem (or any politician) who tells you they're "working to make your middle-class life better" then jumps into the limo and is whisked off to one of his/her multi-million dollar homes? As for Kerry and his "I know the middle-class pain and concerns so I'll take a second mortgage out on my $12M home and Renoir collection to finance my campaign"...give me a break. You no nothing of the pain and worries of the majority of Americans.

Is any poitician concerned about jobs when they nearly unanimously vote themselves a pay raise every year, usually in the middle of the night so it gets no news coverage until the next cycle?

Sadly, only the weathly (Dem, Rep, Ind. and all) can afford to run for office anymore. How many of you can raise $100M or more to run? We need choices and vote for whoever we feel will best represent our needs. Thats our constitutional right.

2000Flyer

 

[njcapt]

For an alternative the the Republican party check out the platform of the Constution [sic] Party.

Constution Party Platform

The Constitution Party is the only party which is completely pro-life, anti-homosexual rights, pro-American sovereignty, anti-globalist, anti-free trade, anti-deindustrialization, anti-unchecked immigration, pro-second amendment, and against the constantly increasing expansion of unlawful police laws, in favor of a strong national defense and opposed to unconstitutional interventionism.

Yeah, I say we let them siphon off the reactionary, bunker-in-the-backyard, fundamentalist types out of the Republican constituency - just like Nader stands to do with the Democrats.

Fuking Ralph Nader. I read the platform of his party and tend to agree with a lot of their points. It's just that I have followed that socially retarded know-it-all for years, and will strenuously fight anything he is associated with. Fortunately, it appears that a lot of the people who supported him in 2000 are still pizzed off that he tanked the election and allowed George Bush to squeak his way into office. Hopefully, he will be resoundingly shouted down as the lame attention grabber he is and let Bush and Kerry duke it out.

 

[TWA Dude]

I believe the American people were sick and tired of Clintonesque politics, of which Al Gore was party too. They also saw what a bumbling idiot Al Gore is.

Excellent point! That sure does explain why 500,000 more people voted for Gore than Bush in 2000.

(read sarcasm)

P.S. I wonder who the Supreme Court will elect president this year?

 

[jarhead]

How many votes did Pat Buchannan "siphon" off from GWB? Hmmmm? There is no constitutional right for there to be only two candidates running for the highest office in the land. I'd like to see a dozen choices or more. Kinda like the California governors race. Choice is what it's all about. That's why we get to vote. To choose.

 

[ilinipilot]

Ralph Nader is an EGOmaniac

This is NOT about the issues and never ever will be if he runs as a third party candidate. If this was truly about the issues then how he would do anything in his power to get those issues to the fore front.

Contrast these two scenarios:
1. He runs as a 3rd party guys wins 4% of the vote, bush wins by a mark of 49% to 47%. NONE of his causes get advanced and bush is relelected.

2. Nader sucks in his ego, and supports a DEM nominee. He can bring in votes so that will mean he can carry some influuence with the nominee. And he can get his issues dealt with because a person he helped elect will be in office and that person. AND his supporters will be voting for the nominee so now the numbers could swing to the Dem nominee.

Lastly ALL nader does is create fear in the Public. How could any airline pilot support him after he wrote that book about airplane safety. What did that accomplish nothing, all it did was make flyers more nervous in and industry that is THE safest in the world.

As you can tell I am very opinionated in this issue. I hope people have a clear head when voting and vote with their minds and not vote on passion.

Thanks for reading
D

 

[jarhead]

illinipilot

You have every right to be opinionated. I support that far more than apathy. Stick to what you believe in. The rest of America should do the same.

Question----Is Al Sharpton an ego maniac? Was Wes Clark, Howard Dean, Dick Gephart, et al also full of "ego"? I doubt that any candidate for any office in the land does not have an ego. They believe they have the best ideas. It's then up to the voters to sort it all out.

 

[Timebuilder]

P.S. I wonder who the Supreme Court will elect president this year?

Since you are probably an intelligent man, I won't stoop to insult you for that hamhanded attempt at humor. I will, however, set you straight.

The Florida court had been cautioned by the Supremes to not try and "cherry pick" certain counties for recounts. These counties were seen as being likely places where the Florida democrats could maneuver the recount to fit their agenda. The Supremes said no, this wasn't within the scope of their judicial mandate, and the election stood, as finished.

So, this idea tha the Supreme Court "placed" Bush in office is whimsical democrat storytelling, or as the rest of us know it, a LIE.

Back to the thread topic, Nader just made a speech at the National Press Club. He used all of the expected keywords, such as "big business", "worker", "corporate", "private financing", and a whole laundry list of other words that are part and parcel to any good socialist call-to-arms.

God bless this man.

 

[jarhead]

I think Kerry, Edwards, Kucinitch and Sharpton, and all other Democrat candidates should get out of the race. They're just siphoning off votes from Ralph Nader, thus assuring GWB another 4 years.

 

[ilinipilot]

Great point but at least wes Clark came out and supported a nominee when he bowed out. He said I want whats good for the party and that i respect. He has enough decency to swallow his own pride when he cant succeed.

He could run as an independant but chose not too, hopefully for the good of the party.

I agree they all have egos, but there comes a time and a place where if your ego is bigger than the causes you are fighting for they why do it. If you care about your causes then you should do whatever you can to advance your causes even if it means, supporting someone else.

Thanks
D

 

[Capt. Tex]

So, this idea tha the Supreme Court "placed" Bush in office is whimsical democrat storytelling, or as the rest of us know it, a LIE.

You keep telling yourself that, night after night, if it helps you sleep.

 

[HoursHore]

Capt Tex
I am sure there are some Viper drivers in SKF that would like to talk to you about your avatar.

Those who can't, mock

 

[Tim47SIP]

Cpt Dik-I mean Tex

So what is your background. What unit did you serve in. I am sure you were a war hero with lots of medals. I am sure you served your country proudly which gives you the credibility to mock the National Guard or for any other Veteran out there that did't serve in that war during that period.

 

[merikeyegro]

...

Kids - Nader has to get on the ballot first. He doesn't have the Greens this year and has very little support. Many of his old supporters just plain don't like the thought of him giving another election to Bush. Yes, Gore was a moron and should have won anyway. However, FL was won by 537 votes and Nader got 97,000. Let's say that half of them would not have voted at all and the others would have voted for, primarily, Gore. Gore would be president...and we'd all be hugging trees. Nonetheless, Bush would not be in office and this race would be a little different.

Nader will have a tough time getting on ballots. This is NOT 2000 and he has very little support. If he pulls 0.5%, I'll be surprised. Kerry is liberal enough. Get behind him and go for it.

 

[jarhead]

Why will no one state how many votes Pat Buchannan "siphoned" away from Bush? Is that not the same logic as Nader taking votes from Gore?

 

[surplus1]

Why will no one state how many votes Pat Buchannan "siphoned" away from Bush? Is that not the same logic as Nader taking votes from Gore?

I doubt Buchannan siphoned any significant number of votes from Bush. However when thousands of voters from a County that is predominantly Jewish casts votes for Buchannan, there's a fly in the ointment somewhere. That constituency simply doesn't vote for Christian right wing candidate whatever his name may be.

Since both Bush and Buchannan are "bible belt" candidates supported by the Pat Robertson's and Jerry Falwells of the world it raises eyebrows when a predominantly Jewish population votes for the Christian right-wing poster boys. Especially when they have "one of their own" on the opposing ballot.

That one has an "odor" that can be whiffed as far away as Patagonia.

 

[jarhead]

My cousin and his wife retired in Florida several years ago. He has told me that both he and his wife voted for Pat Buchannan. (They're both non practicing Lutherans) So, I know at least two people who voted for Pat Buchannan. There surly must be more than that. What was the margin of defeat for Al Gore? 514 wasn't it?

I really am not concerned with an answer to what was really meant to be a rhetorical comment. So many seem to think that any votes given to Ralph Nader, belonged to Al Gore. My contention is that they did not belong to anyone except Nader. Ralph did not steal (or "Siphon") any votes. They were given to him by individual voters. Some, I suspect, did so due to the other choices boiled down to casting their vote for "Dumb and Dumber".
No offense to the actors in that film is intended.

 

[surplus1]

I will, however, set you straight.

I have no problem with your support for George, but the idea that you are setting anyone straight is at best an oxymoron.

The Florida court had been cautioned by the Supremes to not try and "cherry pick" certain counties for recounts. These counties were seen as being likely places where the Florida democrats could maneuver the recount to fit their agenda. The Supremes said no, this wasn't within the scope of their judicial mandate, and the election stood, as finished.

There was a problem, in the view of the US Supreme Court, with a recount by "selected counties." However, that was not an error of the Florida Supreme Court, it was an error on the part of legal counsel for Gore. The Florida court did not come up with the "cherry pick" concept. It was the lawyer's idea to request a recount limited to specific counties as opposed to state wide, not the Florida courts. You can state the facts without attempts to mislead.

So, this idea tha the Supreme Court "placed" Bush in office is whimsical democrat storytelling, or as the rest of us know it, a LIE.

Again you "spin" events to suit your side of the storytelling. If the Supreme Court was interested in a fair procedure for recounting the Florida votes, it could easily have ordered a state-wide recount which it said would be legitimate. Instead it voted five to four to decide the election, thus depriving the people of their franchise and forever casting a shadow on the legitimacy of the election and the current President. That reality does not change regardless of whether you supported Bush or Gore.

Additionally, other courts in Florida, headed by judges of Republican persuasion, allowed the counting of thousands of absentee ballots that did not comply with Florida election law. Had those illegal votes been outcast, the election may have had a different outcome. We don't know.

Like it or not, the truth is that the "people of Florida" did not elect George Bush. The courts, the head of the state's electoral commission, the governor and the state police, more than did their part to ensure who would emerge the victor in a very close election.

It is of course merely a coincidence that all of those entities happen to be dominated or controlled by the current president's political party. (You see, I can spin doctor too.)

Back to the thread topic, Nader just made a speech at the National Press Club. He used all of the expected keywords, such as "big business", "worker", "corporate", "private financing", and a whole laundry list of other words that are part and parcel to any good socialist call-to-arms.
God bless this man.

Based on past experience with your rhetoric, I know that if I had said the equivalent with respect to the mantra of neoconservatism and GWB's right-wing club, at this point you would be calling me a "hate-America- first, left-wing liberal extremist and questioning my patriotism.

What should I call you?

 

[merikeyegro]

Blinded by the right.

 

[surplus1]

Priceless!

 

[flying4life]

I know this is flightinfo.com, but religion and politics ...why not.
As far as finding the right guy for the dems goes... the stuff that comes out of their mouths... "We don't care who, just as long as he beats GWB." I'll tell ya, that's best for the country (NOT). "We don't care what the guy stands for, or what his positions are just so he takes out GWB." What kind of joke is this, is this the best dems can come up with? That's the dumbest stuff I've ever heard.
Oh I can already hear it... "That's just how bad we want him out." Yea ok, just throw anybody in there, we'll take care of the rest. I'm voting for GWB because he is GWB. Not because he can beat the other guy, his chances are the best..etc. To listen to the democrat runners... as they bowed out (except for Clark).."I'll support whoever gets the nomination." You guys don't care who's there, you'll support anyone.... that's sad!