Thank you ALPA

[Ocity]

Shack, Even at FedEx pilots are moving backward thanks to ALPA. It's time for all airlines to dump ALPA. Seems the only pilots making progress are the ones with an inhouse union.

REALLY??!!


Exactly who would that be, and what specific progress are they making?

After you explain that, (which I doubt you can) tell me what steps an independent union could take to make you "happy".

Again, a Caveat...Wishful thinking now allowed. Reality based opinions would be far more useful.

 

[MD10PLT]

Exactly who would that be, and what specific progress are they making?

After you explain that, (which I doubt you can) tell me what steps an independent union could take to make you "happy".

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that FedEx was in the middle of an excess bid which will effectively move around 200-300 (probably more) to lesser paying seats. This is all being done to give the over 60 crowd a front seat. Which was directly caused by ALPA.

This retro provision was pushed by ALPA and inserted in the law. No way an inhouse union would have gotten that through. Especially since it was against the wishes of the majority.

With an inhouse union we would have the same contract today and we wouldn't be submitting the desires of the few at ALPA national, against the majority of pilots wishes.

 

[ironspud]

:crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

 

[N2264J]

YGTBSM....How do you figure being counted as a second class citizen and having your job used as a bargaining chip at the mainline table is "a good deal"....

How can you complain? It was/is your choice not to move on, is it not?

This is at least one reason ALPA is failing: the mainline mindset that "regional" pilots somehow don't merit equal representation based on the length of the fuselage they operate. ALPA has a fiduciary duty to keep all pilots from harm by their own union.

It's queer in a creepy sort of way to be so preoccupied with the size of someone's tube.

In order to have any bargaining leverage, all flying under the brand should be done by one list. Unfortunately for the profession, that horse left the barn in 2000 when the DMEC, doing business as ALPA, facilitated management's alter ego wet dream by killing the PID and any hope of true "collective bargaining" at Delta.

 

[waveflyer]

How can you complain? It was/is your choice not to move on, is it not?

I won't defend that-- b/c one of the things i hate about our current RJ/Major system is that it punishes those who are good enough to move on.

But i think you have to get the baby boomer legacy pilot off the pedestal-- there has been FAR LESS OPPORTUNITY for GenX b/c the boomers sold out the small jets.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that FedEx was in the middle of an excess bid which will effectively move around 200-300 (probably more) to lesser paying seats. This is all being done to give the over 60 crowd a front seat. Which was directly caused by ALPA.

Wrong...again. ALPA didn't ask for or push Age 65. It was going to happen. What ALPA did was handle it poorly amongst its members. Worth was no fan of Age 65, and he had the ability to delay it... No, it was the ignorant membership that had to have anyone but Worth as ALPA president... well you got it....

This retro provision was pushed by ALPA and inserted in the law. No way an inhouse union would have gotten that through. Especially since it was against the wishes of the majority.

Wrong...again! It wasn't against the majority. The majority was too apathetic and lazy to get involved. All you got was it was the majority of the minority.

With an inhouse union we would have the same contract today and we wouldn't be submitting the desires of the few at ALPA national, against the majority of pilots wishes.

You like in house unions! Like SWAPA that push hard for age 65....

In house unions are not that effective. Sure they are easy cause they only have to worry about a few hundred to a few thousand pilots. Whereas a national union has to tens of thousands with different interests. That is not easy.

In addition, ALPA was very effective in the legislation change of Age 65.. meaning ALPA ensured the least amount of pain.

ALPA is NOT any ones personal bargaining agent. You seem to think ALPA means MD10PLT Association. It is not. ALPA National deals with general issues that effect the entire profession. Your MEC deals with local issues.

Sorry, but I've heard that while your block reps where having an LEC meeting, guys were playing in the rec room next door at the AOC.

Membership participation is weak at ALPA. How do you expect ALPA to know what the membership wants if they don't participate and vote.

Back to In house unions. UPS management knew the IPA wouldn't strike. They simply don't have the money for it... thus UPS negotiated against the pilots knowing that. The UPS contract passed with 2/3 in favor. That is a company favored contract. The Fedex contract passed with over 90% in favor. That is a pilot favored contract.

In house unions don't have leverage and money. The NPA was going to picket the Airtran meeting... and management called them off... pretty weak.....

Back to ALPA. Before deregulation the airlines had Mutual Aid. If an airline was struck then other airlines would subsidize the stuck airlines losses. Frank Lorenzo knew this and used it to break the unions at TI. It wasn't a level playing field and ALPA pushed and got the law changed. There is no more Mutual Aid.

Stop thinking about ALPA as your personal bargaining agent. It was never designed to be... Unions require your involvement. ALPA has allot of major problems right now and you and I not working to fix those problems are going to be our demise.

Furloughs might be coming to FedEx. Usually management asks for paycuts and work rule changes. Its time to stop worrying about me and start thinking about we.

The next ten years are going to be critical. Not only are payrates up for grabs, but the profession itself as we continue to go global.

What will doing nothing and blaming ALPA accomplish?

 

[BoilerUP]

For those FDX pilots whining about ALPA, shouldn't their ire be pointed at David Webb and the FedEx MEC for their single-handed push allowing "NDs" to come from the panel back up front...not ALPA National?

 

[Ocity]

Congress voted Unanimously to pass age 65. Zero partisanship. You give ALPA way, way, WAY too much credit if you think that kind of support was generated from a pilot labor union.

Age 65 was about the same thing ALL legislation is about...Cash. The PBGC wasn't going to pay guys to, (in their minds) Kick back and take it easy for five more years when every other citizen that the PBGC got stuck paying...thanks to BK laws, was working their ass off.

Prater should have stood up for the Majority. I'm with you on that one. However, not a solitary member of congress could give two shizz what any Airline Pilot thinks

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that FedEx was in the middle of an excess bid which will effectively move around 200-300 (probably more) to lesser paying seats. This is all being done to give the over 60 crowd a front seat. Which was directly caused by ALPA.

This retro provision was pushed by ALPA and inserted in the law. No way an inhouse union would have gotten that through. Especially since it was against the wishes of the majority.

With an inhouse union we would have the same contract today and we wouldn't be submitting the desires of the few at ALPA national, against the majority of pilots wishes.