Thank you Alaska for the Jumpseat. NOT!

[Formula 1]

I was denied jumpseat on Alaska tonight because the gate agent told me that Jackson system was not working and there was no seats in the back of the airplane because the previous flight cancelled. I asked to see the captain but the supervisor said no. I sat at the gate for 45 minutes and waited while they checked my ID with their Jackson system (their version of CASS I guess), but it would not work. Since I waited so long, I missed connect through LAS to try to make this direct flight. Now I am sleeping in the crew lounge.

 

[Wally]

I'm sorry to hear you missed your commute and had to spend the night in the crew lounge. But I'm wondering, what is the point of your post? I'm guessing this was just a random problem, but if you really think it warrants, you would be much better off passing along these details to your airline's jumpseat coordinator. Although I would omit the "NOT!" reference.

Good luck,
Wally

p.s. It's JACS (pronounced "Jacks").

 

[PSL]

I believe the point of his post was to illustrate two areas of frustration:

1) The CASS system which was in place did not work (obvious).

2) He thought he should be able to speak to the captain and was frustrated the ground personnel blocked him from doing so (not so obvious).

I don't know how Alaska's JS works, but even if he would have gotten to me (SWA) I can not authorize off line JS to ride up front without CASS approval.

Again .. sorry that he had to sleep in the lounge but offline jumpseating can be a challenge at times.

 

[ivauir]

I have also had trouble ith JACS. While I've told my jumpseat coordinator, maybe the Alaska guys would like to know there is a problem.

 

[Freight Dog]

I had a similar experience with United and CASS. I was getting "unknown error - call Flight Ops." After about 10-15 minutes of trying to no avail... they tried it again on a different computer and my ugly mug scared the bejeezus out of them the first try.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Was it an American agent working the Alaska booth?

I've experienced that and what should have been a 6 hour flight to ANC, turned into 18 hours thanks to the nazi.

 

[Mookie]

I was denied jumpseat on Alaska tonight because the gate agent told me that Jackson system was not working and there was no seats in the back of the airplane because the previous flight cancelled. I asked to see the captain but the supervisor said no. I sat at the gate for 45 minutes and waited while they checked my ID with their Jackson system (their version of CASS I guess), but it would not work. Since I waited so long, I missed connect through LAS to try to make this direct flight. Now I am sleeping in the crew lounge.

obviously you went back to the crew lounge and started drinking. i can guarantee you that the captain did not know you were having this problem or he/she would have done everything to get you on, unless you work for "RedWood."

relax...commuting sux and sometimes you get screwed. everyone on this board who has at one point been left behind, so no reason to single out an isolated situation with a stupid gate agent.

if you don't want to commute...then apply here.

mookie

 

[skypine69]

Alaska is always good to me when I jump on them. However, JACS is tempermental and when it is down, there is nothing the CA can do for you. Part of commuting, sucks...but it is how it is!

 

[kingair1]

I agree with WALLY'S POST. I would omit the "NOT!" reference. Its a broad statement for a specific problem that never really happens much. The JAX's system is reliable ! ( MOST OF THE TIME ! )

 

[bmpilot2003]

I'm sorry to hear you missed your commute and had to spend the night in the crew lounge. But I'm wondering, what is the point of your post? I'm guessing this was just a random problem, but if you really think it warrants, you would be much better off passing along these details to your airline's jumpseat coordinator. Although I would omit the "NOT!" reference.

Good luck,
Wally



p.s. It's JACS (pronounced "Jacks").

Problems with gate agents not letting guys talk to the captain is not a random problem it is a GROWING problem. Gate agents think they control the jumpseat.

 

[RadioClash]

Problems with gate agents not letting guys talk to the captain is not a random problem it is a GROWING problem. Gate agents think they control the jumpseat.

Had a gate agent deny me the jumpseat a while back, I asked to speak with the captain, who I knew personally, and she said no. When I said that it is the captains jumpseat and I would like to speak with him she then said "no it is my jumpseat and I determine who gets on it."

I held my breath and walked off.

 

[Old School 737]

double post

 

[Old School 737]

I think that if JACS does not work the gate agent can pull up the real CASS. But I don't think many know how to do it. If you saw the CPT or FO he would have helped out. Sorry for the lame gate agent.

 

[Ben Franklin]

Gate agents think they control the jumpseat.

While I agree that gate agents don't control the jumpseat wholly, they do in fact control who gets on and off the airplane while the boarding door is open at the gate.

I think it might have something to do with FAA procedures involving ground security.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Capi_Cafre']

You're obviously fairly new to the industry so let me give you a bit of friendly advice: This type of situation doesn't even rate a "3" on a 10 point scale of commuting disasters. Get used to it.

 

[PCL_128]

While I agree that gate agents don't control the jumpseat wholly, they do in fact control who gets on and off the airplane while the boarding door is open at the gate.

True, but any good Captain will simply respond that "this airplane isn't leaving until he's on it. You can list the delay code anyway you want. I really don't give a d@mn." The gate agent will back down every time.

 

[Caveman]

I had a similar incident very recently. I was JS out of LAS on DAL. The gate agent informed me that the Delta gates do not have internet access, therefore they could not verify me in CASS and I could only get a seat in the back. I did get a ride home (thanks BTW), but if the cabin was full I would not have been able to ride the actual JS because they have no means to verify me in CASS. I asked if it was a temporary problem and she said that's the way it has always been at LAS. I asked if the front ticket counter could access CASS and she told me no, it was the same out there.

So, what's the skinny? Was she blowing smoke up my skirt or is there really a CASS problem with DAL in LAS? If so, is anybody addressing it?

 

[hoover]

When I said that it is the captains jumpseat and I would like to speak with him she then said "no it is my jumpseat and I determine who gets on it."

Actually, it is neither. The jumpseat belongs to the company. Only those that the company approves can occupy the jumpseat. The company give the Captain the right to deny a jumpseat, but not to approve it.

 

[cfm56-7]

Now I am sleeping in the crew lounge

HA HA

 

[Wesb737fo]

Actually, it is neither. The jumpseat belongs to the company. Only those that the company approves can occupy the jumpseat. The company give the Captain the right to deny a jumpseat, but not to approve it.

Which is why WE...the flight crews have to look out for each other.

Cass problems are one thing, if it's broke...fine...you can't ride because the rules say so. I can live with that. If it is constantly broken well.... horse sh!t, get if fixed. The problem is mgmt doesn't give a ....the pilots do.

As far as the pilots giving up all control to gate agents on who gets the ride, I say Bu11Sh!t, if this is the case WE need to take it back.

When I have the time I usually check the gate area to see if anyone is looking for the jumpseat. I haven't seen any problems lately, but If I do it will go to the jumpseat coordinator.

my .02

 

[sabreliner]

Actually, it is neither. The jumpseat belongs to the company. Only those that the company approves can occupy the jumpseat. The company give the Captain the right to deny a jumpseat, but not to approve it.

Actually...The jumpseast is a negotiated benefit. The continued denial of that benefit is a violation of the contract. Allowing a gate agent to take that benefit that negotiating capital was spent gaining is just the same as allowing a gate agent to "adjust" your times and affect your pay.

Further, allowing a gate agent control over a seat in the cockpit only further erodes Captain's Authority, which is already under serious attack all over our industry.

The jumpseat may seem a small issue to those of us who don't commute, but for the rest of us it is huge. Also, the jumpseat's impact on a company's operations cannot be ignored since if a pilot is arbitrairly denied a ride, a flight may leave late or be cnx'd alltogether due to the short staffing of most of our companies.

 

[Getter]

50% average for me with the JAX system since its been in operation. It seems to be the worst as far as getting CASS approval on any airline I travel on, which is pretty much all of them. I've found going to a different gate for approval can sometimes get different results. For the most part I avoid Alaska these days unless its my last option, because JAX is unreliable.

I wish Alaska would figure out what the problem is and fix it or at least have an alternate means of approval.

 

[B190Captain]

Not too long ago I missed a flight on American out of Miami because of "USER ERROR." Agent did not know what she was doing and it kept flagging me as "Cabin JS only."

 

[waveflyer]

Rant all you want- but PLEASE DO go through your JS coordinator and DOCUMENT it.

To those who say get used to it- i think thats a wrong attitude. My old regional was getting in the habit of bumping jumpseaters to avoid a delay- and even had rampers deny approval b/c they didn't want to get ballast(!)-

So i got in the habit of walking out to the gate everytime we were full-- A small effort on my part- meant huge things to the 15-20 jumpseaters i discover that way every year. Every gate agent is stressed- but none are allowed to bump a jumpseater b/c they don't want to figure it out. AND - like has been said- i'm all about on time-on time! let's roll- but i'll take a delay - and stay even keeled about it- any day of the week if it gets a JS on. We know who is in the CASS and who's not--
"ok- we're alright- but I know he should be allowed on so, we'll just hang out until we figure it out."

More flies with honey than vinegar- but it's 'shakes-head' silly how many impossible problems get fixed pretty quickly when you set that parking brake and get involved a bit.

look out for each other- industry wide- noone else is.

 

[RadioClash]

Actually, it is neither. The jumpseat belongs to the company. Only those that the company approves can occupy the jumpseat. The company give the Captain the right to deny a jumpseat, but not to approve it.

You are missing the point. Nevermind.

 

[tico]

50% average for me with the JAX system since its been in operation. It seems to be the worst as far as getting CASS approval on any airline I travel on, which is pretty much all of them. I've found going to a different gate for approval can sometimes get different results. For the most part I avoid Alaska these days unless its my last option, because JAX is unreliable.

I wish Alaska would figure out what the problem is and fix it or at least have an alternate means of approval.

The fact that JACS is another typical in house technology that has never been a consistant performer is inline with everything that we do. Jacs broke 50% of the time and the airline broke the other 50% makes us a lousy bet for commuters. And that is true for company and non-company. If the gate agent cant verify me in Jacs then I can not ride in my own jumpseat. The captain has absolutely no say in the yes only in the no..........

 

[SRMairlines]

The good ol' days CASS, JAX, and other crap really didn't exist. Jumpseating was as easy as flashing an I.D. and get a slip signed by the CAPT. I guess we can thank TSA and the Homeland security department for their security directives.

 

[Morning Wood]

I had a similar incident very recently. I was JS out of LAS on DAL. The gate agent informed me that the Delta gates do not have internet access, therefore they could not verify me in CASS and I could only get a seat in the back. I did get a ride home (thanks BTW), but if the cabin was full I would not have been able to ride the actual JS because they have no means to verify me in CASS. I asked if it was a temporary problem and she said that's the way it has always been at LAS. I asked if the front ticket counter could access CASS and she told me no, it was the same out there.

So, what's the skinny? Was she blowing smoke up my skirt or is there really a CASS problem with DAL in LAS? If so, is anybody addressing it?

It has to do with the photo CASS requirement which for some reason does not work in the D gate in LAS. This has been an issure for awhile and I thought it had been fixed or at least looked into. I haven't jumped on anyone but UA out of LAS recently and they were able to verify me with my PPR#.

 

[coolyokeluke]

I missed two flights out of ANC because JACS wouldn't permit me to get on. The gate agents didn't like the fact that I wanted to speak with the captain. The crews were great but there was nothing they could do about it. I had similiar problems out of Denver and Seattle. JACS is a hit or miss proposition, I learned I couldn't depend on it. Nor could I depend on Alaska flights even if JACS did approve me, how many flights were "delayed" when actually the loads were low so they rebooked everyone on the subsequent flight and called it a delay instead of what it really was, a cancellation?

I was always treated great by Alaska crews but their operation can't be depended on.

 

[SRMairlines]

I was always treated great by Alaska crews but their operation can't be depended on.

We can't always trust our own operation. Since we are Alaska our management want's things to be 'Unique'. Unfortunately unique does not work in this industry anymore. (That is why we reinvented the wheel again to develop Jacs instead of use stand-alone CASS system)

You need to report this to your J/S committee chairman. Make sure he will contact ours with the info. Ongoing problems like this need to be addressed and fixed. I am a commuter and it drives me nuts to hear these stories. I have never been affected by Jacs but we need to know when these incidents occur. Unfortunately Jacs is how we access the CASS system, so if it's down we are all SOL.