Tell Timmay to f@#$ off

[FlyWolf]

Hello to all my MEH friends. When I saw TH's video, I knew I had heard his little speech before. In fact, I heard "the same, exact words" from F9's ceo just a few weeks ago. Not relatively close, exactly the same words.

We need pay cuts to get financing, everyone needs to share in the pain, fair and equitable, the judge will take much more than we are asking.

Let me guess, Timmy has hired the Seabury group to assist with their restructuring?

With regard to "pay cuts for financing", ask to see the term sheets. Ask Timmy for a contract between MEH and TPG with signatures that guarantees financing in return for a pay cut. You and I know that there is no financing and pay cuts have nothing to do with financing.

Have you heard about "lengthening the runway" yet? You will, in fact people will stop saying hello and goodby when they pass in the hall, instead they will just nod and repeat like robots "lengthen the runway, lengthen the runway"...

The story you will be told is, with these new paycuts (and the financing that is sure to materialize), MEH will be the strongest airline on the planet. You just need to lengthen the runway and survive the battle of attrition that exists in our industry today.

Initially, that "story" sounds reasonable, even logical. That is until you look at the numbers. What is your cash burn every day? How much financing do you realistically expect to be thrown at you? How long will that money, that doesn't actually exist, last in today's fuel environment?

The sad fact is, and I am speaking only about my airline as I have no right to tell you about yours, is that we are done. F9 never obtained financing, and never will unless we agree to interest rates higher than 15% which in itself is suicidal. In short order, we will begin to sell assets to obtain the only liquidity available. Once those dollars are gone, so are we.

If oil drops to $100 a barrel, "we will be the strongest airline on the planet...", unless you guys lengthen the runway. Then we will be the second strongest airline on the planet, until the next airline...

Is it too early to start drinking?

Well said StaySeated.

I wish you guys all the best at F9.

 

[Wesb737fo]

From a letter to employee dated 06/24.


((((((((There are two basic but critical linchpins to the plan that I want to make
sure you understand:
First, everyone who is a stakeholder in our airline must come to the
table and make contributions to this plan. As I said on Friday, there is
no 90 percent solution.
The second is how it needs to come together, because if we cannot
resolve each piece that is part of the plan in the proper sequence of
events, it will not work.

We will be able to obtain additional financing from TPG to secure this
plan, but only if the plan -- a full and permanent solution -- comes into
place. Additionally, several of our larger business partners (Boeing,
SkyWest, Rolls-Royce) are willing to discuss serious concessions, but only
if what we are asking of our employees, including our labor unions, is
agreed to. We have begun that process by meeting over the last two weeks
with the Airline Pilots Association and the Association of Flight
Attendants, asking each for significant, but fair and equitable,
concessions. Non-represented employees will make significant, but fair and
equitable, sacrifices as well.)))))))

What does he think we are? kids?, obtain financing only if we agree to the pay cuts?

I will say it again loud and clear, SHUT IT DOWN, I hope I get to vote on this POS down before I get furloughed, which is not a bad thing right now.

That is very similar to what I once heard at a mgt road show a few years ago. " We are very close to negotiating new terms with Boeing, ILFC, GE yada yada yada... but first we have to have concessions from labor". The airline in question recently shut down.

 

[FlyWolf]

Our FA's just got the word on furloughs, first date is 08/01, then more on 09/01. Total 200, mind you we only have 410 fa's.

Pilots, we still don't have a solid company number, but, people with 4 bars will be furloughed, it will go back as far as 1998/99.

 

[eightdriver]

Actually they can furlough out of seniority. They just call it a downgrade. Then can do that for up to 90 days before the union can grieve it. It wouldn't surprise me if they did because it would cut down on some training cost whilee keeping the 17's flying. I guess the same rule applies for upgrading as well...8

 

[FlyWolf]

This just in, Midwest will park 5 717 in addition to the entire MD80

 

[FlyWolf]

WEDNESDAY, June 25, 2008, 10:25 a.m.
By Tom Daykin</B>


Midwest cuts to be deeper, pilots say


Midwest Airlines Inc.'s pending route and job cuts will likely be even deeper than initially feared, the head of Midwest's pilots union said today.

Midwest executives are planning to reduce the financially troubled airline's number of jets by nearly half, said Jay Schnedorf, chairman of the Air Line Pilots Association's Midwest chapter. As a result, layoffs at Oak Creek-based Midwest will amount to hundreds of jobs, he said.

Midwest announced last week it will phase out a dozen MD-80 jets used for charter service as well as regular passenger service to leisure destinations and West Coast cities. That would leave Midwest with 25 Boeing 717 jets, which are much more fuel-efficient than the MD-80 jets.

Schnedorf said today that he's received accounts from flight attendants that Midwest executives, in employee meetings, say the company also plans to phase out five of the 25 Boeing 717s. That would reduce the airline's fleet by 46%.

Meanwhile, individual pilots have been told by some managers that the airline's restructuring will likely leave it with around 200 pilots, Schnedorf said. Midwest now has 400 pilots, although that number will be down to around 365 by July, due to a previously announced work force reduction.

That plan to reduce the fleet size by nearly half will bring job cuts for other employees, Schnedorf said, including flight attendants, ground crews and mechanics.

Meanwhile, Midwest management, through an initial presentation to the pilots union, is seeking pay cuts ranging from 45% to 65%, Schnedorf said. Those cuts are not acceptable, he said, and the pilots union continues to seek additional financial data from management in order to respond to that presentation.

An official from the Association of Flight Attendants, the other union at Midwest, couldn't be immediately reached for comment.

Midwest spokesman Michael Brophy said the company continues to have discussions with the union leaders, but will not comment publicly on those talks.

"We have been transparent in communicating to our employees that there are sure to be reductions in work force and benefits through most parts of the organization, but that they will be fair and equitable," Brophy said, in a statement.

"Obviously, Chapter 11 is not our most desirable destination," Brophy said. "That's why we're working on this restructuring plan, so we can avoid that scenario."

Midwest Chairman and CEO Timothy Hoeksema says Midwest's financial troubles are largely caused by soaring oil prices, with the airline is paying nearly double for jet fuel compared with a year ago. Midwest is owned by investment group TPG Capital and Northwest Airlines Corp.

 

[fam62c]

Has anybody asked how much potential revenue they are losing on a daily basis because there are only 88 seats in the 717's? The bottom line is that there's a gun to your head and the trigger is going to be pulled. You just don't have any way of knowing if the gun is loaded or not; only TPG knows that. They know damn well what the job market looks like for pilots and are hoping you would rather take a 50% pay cut than be unemployed. I also noticed that Tim's letter uses the word "pemanent solution." That means that if you do this and the company survives you will not be able to get anything back if fuel comes down and the industry recovers. Other people will make money from your sacrifices while you fly 717's at 50-seat RJ rates. I don't want to rehash the past and I'm not saying that things would be better if there had been a merger with AAI because they are hurting as well, however I will say this; TPG portrayed themselves as a "white knight" but this is what Joe Leonard was trying to say when he warned everybody how private equity companies do business.

This is right out of the post-9/11 playbook. Everyone played along last time and look where things ended up. Everybody gave back and Timmy clung to the worn out, high cost "Best Care in the Air" model; nothing was learned except how to extort money from employees, vendors, lessors and the government. The more you give the more they will want next time. I think it's time to drop the final curtain on the Timmy H. show. Keep your money as long as you can and accept the inevitable fact that it's over no matter what you do. Would you rather have a job for 3 more months at 100% pay or a job for 6 more months at 50% pay? In the end it's the same. You might as well get it over with and leave with a little pride. A longer runway won't get this pig off the ground.

 

[CaptSeth]

Airline managers are like heroin addicts when it comes to concessions from labor. Give them a little, and they will always want more.

Many of us have and will pay the ultimate career price during this unprecedented downturn. Many will be forced out of the industry, and it's a damn shame. But we would all be better off if there was a line in the sand somewhere.

 

[labbats]

I hope this is just a scare tactic, but it seems that Midwest is going from growing to dying in no time.

 

[Colonel Savage]

This is an experiment by TPG to see where the floor really is with union represented mainline carriers in distress. Tiger, Carlyle, Bayside etc are ALL watching to see what the outcome will be at MEH. If the pilots fold and take the cuts, these draconian measures will be the norm industry-wide for years to come. Pilot group after pilot group will get hammered in a style that will make the post-9/11 concessions look like a warm-up.

This will be a precedent setting event industry wide, just like the pension bust at USAirways was for ALPA carriers.

This is the line in the sand, guys. There is more at stake here than any of us can possibly imagine.

 

[On Your Six]

When are these proposed wage decreases supposed to take place? How soon?

Interesting that they are tying everything (investment from TPG, concessions from Skywest, etc.) to labor's acceptance of significant pay cuts. So, they are bullying you into accepting the lesser of two evils - concessions or shut down. The way I see it, you have very little choice in this matter - you need to either accept the concessions (to the detriment of the airline industry with such a low precedent set) or say no and risk the demise of the airline.

Personally, I'd prefer moving on to another opportunity than accept such deplorable wages - what a slap to the face. Shut Midwest Express down and allow Air Tran or someone else to scoop up the 717s and provide for new flying opportunities. MKE has the demand and I am not sure that NWA can fill it quickly. Very sad situation given that Midwest has always been a diamond in the rough.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Tim is not the one behind this. TPG and Dave Siegel are. This is the same company that robbed the 80 percent-funded US Airways' pilot pension for its own profit. If TPG gets involved, your airline is screwed. This company just takes and takes, then leaves the left-over for dead. It has no intention of running a company. That takes too long for TPG to get its money. There are some really informative posts on this thread of what is going on.

The part about bringing the wages down to other companies' wages flying similar equipment has to be talking about Republic Airways and JetBlue, but even they make more. An 8 year JetBlue 190 captain makes 93/hour (no one at JetBlue has been there more than 8 years). A 12 year Republic 175 captain makes $96/hour which is still more. A Republic F/O tops out at $37/hour (the same). TPG is now comparing 717's to regional airplanes. You knew it would happen someday.

 

[ultrarunner]

I hope this is just a scare tactic, but it seems that Midwest is going from growing to dying in no time.

MidEx hasn't grown in years. In fact, there are likely less pilots on property now than 7 or 8 years ago.

I don't count Skywest as growth I guess. Mainline has never grown in recent history.

 

[On Your Six]

Tim is not the one behind this. TPG and Dave Siegel are. This is the same company that robbed the 80 percent-funded US Airways' pilot pension for its own profit. If TPG gets involved, your airline is screwed. This company just takes and takes, then leaves the left-over for dead. It has no intention of running a company. That takes too long for TPG to get its money. There are some really informative posts on this thread of what is going on.

The part about bringing the wages down to other companies' wages flying similar equipment has to be talking about Republic Airways and JetBlue, but even they make more. An 8 year JetBlue 190 captain makes 93/hour (no one at JetBlue has been there more than 8 years). A 12 year Republic 175 captain makes $96/hour which is still more. A Republic F/O tops out at $37/hour (the same). TPG is now comparing 717's to regional airplanes. You knew it would happen someday.

Typical apples-to-oranges comparison made by non-aviation people. They don't care about anything but money - that is their business. It reminds me of children who are attempting to test the boundaries of their parents. See if the pilots will take the bait... Not good.

If I were a Midwest pilot right now I would be looking for a Plan B.

 

[ultrarunner]

When are these proposed wage decreases supposed to take place? How soon?

I suspect they will take effect as soon as the membership votes in favor of it.

When is voting to take place?

 

[MINIME]

Companies like TPG are preditorial businesses. Their job is to go in, suck the money out of their victim and leave. Very similar to what Icahn and Frank Lorenzo like to do.

They don't care about individual people and their families that need to be fed. It's deplorable that our government allows these legalized rapists to exist. They should be banned, along with every CEO that gets in bed with them.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Tim is not the one behind this. TPG and Dave Siegel are. This is the same company that robbed the 80 percent-funded US Airways' pilot pension for its own profit. If TPG gets involved, your airline is screwed. This company just takes and takes, then leaves the left-over for dead. It has no intention of running a company. That takes too long for TPG to get its money. There are some really informative posts on this thread of what is going on.

The part about bringing the wages down to other companies' wages flying similar equipment has to be talking about Republic Airways and JetBlue, but even they make more. An 8 year JetBlue 190 captain makes 93/hour (no one at JetBlue has been there more than 8 years). A 12 year Republic 175 captain makes $96/hour which is still more. A Republic F/O tops out at $37/hour (the same). TPG is now comparing 717's to regional airplanes. You knew it would happen someday.

Tim was behind the botched attempt last year to get us to put contract negotiations on hold. He said TPG requested it but the pilots found out that TPG knew nothing about it. That is when the Union retracted their support for Tims stand alone plan.

 

[fam62c]

I would just drag your feet on this one. Don't say yes, don't say no just keep saying you are evaluating their proposal. If they give you a deadline just say that you can't complete the evaluation and approval process in that timeframe. If they don't set a hard and fast deadline they are just being opportunistic and probing to see what you will do.

I think they may be setting the unions up as the "fall guy" for a Chapter 11 filing by trying to force the employees to be the first to take concessions that, supposedly, everything else is dependent on. If you don't do exactly what they want when they want you to do it they will blame you for the bankruptcy. Don't believe it, it was going to happen anyway; unions just make convenient villians in the press. I don't buy the B.S. that the other parties won't do anything unless the unions are locked in first. You'll end up charging the hill yourselves and when you look back there will be nobody following you.

 

[Captainjerky]

Blame Timmy

"Tim is not the one behind this. TPG and Dave Siegel are. This is the same company that robbed the 80 percent-funded US Airways' pilot pension for its own profit."

On the contrary- BLAME HOEKSEMA. It was he who approached Northwest to approach TPG about a buyout of Midwest, most likely in response to the buyout attempt by AirTran. I won't jump on the 'should Midwest have sold to AirTran?' debate, because that's not the issue in this thread.
The point, however, is that if you want somebody to blame, look over in the Cookie Palace and drop those accusations on the tools who deserve it. Blame Hoeksema for flushing a respected carrier down the crapper. Blame him for canning Skyway and the loss of all those jobs, plus the hundreds to come from Midwest.
I hope the state of Wisconsin realizes in the years to come who deserves to shoulder the responsibility for the atrocity that this has become- it's not the fault of the employees or anybody else he tells you to blame; it's the CEO who got his golden parachute and sold out to TPG.

 

[deadstick]

"Tim is not the one behind this. TPG and Dave Siegel are. This is the same company that robbed the 80 percent-funded US Airways' pilot pension for its own profit."

On the contrary- BLAME HOEKSEMA. It was he who approached Northwest to approach TPG about a buyout of Midwest, most likely in response to the buyout attempt by AirTran. I won't jump on the 'should Midwest have sold to AirTran?' debate, because that's not the issue in this thread.
The point, however, is that if you want somebody to blame, look over in the Cookie Palace and drop those accusations on the tools who deserve it. Blame Hoeksema for flushing a respected carrier down the crapper. Blame him for canning Skyway and the loss of all those jobs, plus the hundreds to come from Midwest.
I hope the state of Wisconsin realizes in the years to come who deserves to shoulder the responsibility for the atrocity that this has become- it's not the fault of the employees or anybody else he tells you to blame; it's the CEO who got his golden parachute and sold out to TPG.

Bravo!

 

[hockeypilot44]

Tim sold out to TPG. He is going to get paid at the expense of the employees. He is not running the company anymore. ******************** Tim and TPG. They took a respectable company with great employees and ruined it ruining lives in the process. There are no more ethics left in this country.

 

[cjdriver]

Counter with a request for management to take a pay cut. Ball's in their court.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

"We need to raise the salary for key employees to keep them from moving on to other opportunities during this difficult time at our company."

How many times have I read that nonsense.

 

[deadstick]

"We need to raise the salary for key employees to keep them from moving on to other opportunities during this difficult time at our company."

This reminds me of an old Rodger Rudder cartoon. RR walks into an ops rooms to find a pompous, very out-spoken (S-H, best thing since the sextant) navigator telling a crowd of airmen "I told the pilot he needed to blah blah blah..." and "Well, then I told HIM...." RR was a bit ticked. He approached the nav and asked, "I have flown 3,000 hours without a navigator. How hours have you flown without a pilot?"

So, what "airline" would need to keep around a bunch of over-paid executives if there are no employees remaining to operate the flights?

 

[JoeMerchant]

I suspect this is part of NWA's plan...

If I were the Midwest MEC I would file a PID with ALPA National and try to get a single list with NWA...

This would be a good test of ALPA national.....Are we in this together....or is still everyone for themselves....

File the PID...protect yourselves....

 

[johnsonrod]

Why stop at 50% pay cut? Keep going until you hit Seminole instructor pay for 717 FOs... This industry BLOW$!

 

[SkiFishFly]

This really suc&s...
It seems awfully hot out there these days. Seems like running both engines and the apu might be the only way to keep the airplane cool enough...

 

[Colonel Savage]

This really suc&s...
It seems awfully hot out there these days. Seems like running both engines and the apu might be the only way to keep the airplane cool enough...

Trouble maker...(just kidding)

 

[FlyWolf]

This really suc&s...
It seems awfully hot out there these days. Seems like running both engines and the apu might be the only way to keep the airplane cool enough...

Plus don't forget to always be safe, so taking your time to review all your paperwork (preferably 4 times just in case you missed something the first 3 times ) taxing at a safe speed (preferably slower than walking speed) , etc....is very important.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Just make sure you push after an AA airplane. That should keep your taxi about the right speed.