Tell Timmay to f@#$ off

[deadstick]

Are they going to try to furlough out of seniority?!

 

[ultrarunner]

No, they will not do that. There is a CBA in effect and they will furlough in accordance with that CBA, as were the previous 4 furloughs over the past 7 years....

That will result in a significant number of training events, as I suspect quite a few of the furloughs will be off the 717 and the senior 80 folks that stay on property will head to training. Which leads me to believe they will keep enough folks on staff to fly the schedule, cover reserve, and all the training events, and once everyone is up and running on the 717, there will be another furlough.

 

[deadstick]

No, they will not do that. There is a CBA in effect and they will furlough in accordance with that CBA, as were the previous 4 furloughs over the past 7 years....

That will result in a significant number of training events, as I suspect quite a few of the furloughs will be off the 717 and the senior 80 folks that stay on property will head to training. Which leads me to believe they will keep enough folks on staff to fly the schedule, cover reserve, and all the training events, and once everyone is up and running on the 717, there will be another furlough.

Ok. It was just the way I read an earlier post. WHat a mess.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yeah, I know when the press release comes out and says "we're parking the 80's", most uninformed would think all those folks would be laid off...but it's still in order of senority....

Not that the company would not LIKE to furlough out of seniority...

...they'd loose that battle so quick, it's not worth the attorney fees to fight...

Ultra

 

[MINIME]

If true, that's a slap on the face of all pilots in this industry. Don't take the bait boys. Whatever you give will end up in the hands of the CEO, TPG and NWA. Sounds like they're trying to build golden parachute on your backs. What a disgrace airline mangement has become!

Sadly, if the airline is ready to shut down, it will do so with or without your paycuts. It's just a matter of who is going to keep that money, you or them. Their ruthless nature will not allow them to simply walk away. They have to make sure they clean house before they go. Ethics, and simply being humane are things that are long gone in this industry.

I say if you got to go down, go down swinging. Keep your money. Your family needs it alot more than those cronies. Again, you giving in to paycuts will not make a lick of difference in the outcome. They know it and I hope that you do as well.

 

[ultrarunner]

If true, that's a slap on the face of all pilots in this industry. Don't take the bait boys. Whatever you give will end up in the hands of the CEO, TPG and NWA.

Actually Minime, the separation contracts with the SLT have already been negotiated, etc....

It's simply posturing, that's all. And even the MEC knows that the proposed cut wont do $hit to save their jobs. But you can bet your a$$ they'll try to bargin...a futile attempt at best, but what the heck.

You can say YES, NO or QUIT. Simple as that!

 

[CitationLover]

You can say YES, NO or QUIT. Simple as that!

I vote NO! Let them declare bankruptcy. Hoeks and Dick Shifter love control and I think hate the idea of being out of control. Call the bluff.

Big deal so a bankruptcy judge imposes wages, they won't be as bad as what TH is trying to impose now.

 

[Colonel Savage]

...Big deal so a bankruptcy judge imposes wages, they won't be as bad as what TH is trying to impose now.

So this pay proposal from TH is part of some pre-packaged bankruptcy strategy? Otherwise, MEH pilots currently have a CBA in place and have no obligation to negoiate w/management. IOW, management can downsize and furlough per the CBA, but not amend the CBA w/out either voluntary give backs from the pilots or Chapt 11.

Is that correct?

 

[ultrarunner]

IOW, management can downsize and furlough per the CBA, but not amend the CBA w/out either voluntary give backs from the pilots or Chapt 11.

Is that correct?

That is exactly correct.

 

[FlyWolf]

I am so mad I can't write a post right now (well, I can't write a post when I am not mad either, but thats another story ) but, I say shut it down, full pay to the last day, shut it down. 1000% NO.

 

[FlyWolf]

From a letter to employee dated 06/24.


((((((((There are two basic but critical linchpins to the plan that I want to make
sure you understand:
First, everyone who is a stakeholder in our airline must come to the
table and make contributions to this plan. As I said on Friday, there is
no 90 percent solution.
The second is how it needs to come together, because if we cannot
resolve each piece that is part of the plan in the proper sequence of
events, it will not work.

We will be able to obtain additional financing from TPG to secure this
plan, but only if the plan -- a full and permanent solution -- comes into
place. Additionally, several of our larger business partners (Boeing,
SkyWest, Rolls-Royce) are willing to discuss serious concessions, but only
if what we are asking of our employees, including our labor unions, is
agreed to. We have begun that process by meeting over the last two weeks
with the Airline Pilots Association and the Association of Flight
Attendants, asking each for significant, but fair and equitable,
concessions. Non-represented employees will make significant, but fair and
equitable, sacrifices as well.)))))))

What does he think we are? kids?, obtain financing only if we agree to the pay cuts?

I will say it again loud and clear, SHUT IT DOWN, I hope I get to vote on this POS down before I get furloughed, which is not a bad thing right now.

 

[deadstick]

Here are a couple of parts from Timmy's letter that I find interesting.

Q: What if one of the pieces of this plan doesn't come in to place?
A: Then it risks failure -- particularly the components that require quick, significant cash relief.

Q: What are we asking for from each union?
A: We are asking each group -- pilots and flight attendants -- for significant contributions. The request made of each group is fair and equitable. Fair and equitable means applying the same standard to each work group and setting everyone's compensation to the market. That means benchmarking against airlines of similar size that fly similar size aircraft.


I sincerely believe they announced Skyway's closure almost 3 months in advance because they hoped that everybody would quit (especially with the severance package), and they would be forced to close early because of staffing. Maybe, this is how they hoped to get out of the EAS contracts without getting fined. Back on message, TH's point in the first QA makes me think the same spin machine is at work here. If this plan fails, it won't be management's fault (just like if Skyway had to close early, it was not management's fault, it was the darn employees who didn't stick around).

I'd like to see how much the officers are being asked to sacrifice. The pay offer is bs! What airline are they benchmarking? In round numbers, they are offering about HALF of the NWA or Airtran rates. If you look at other equipment, that's still less than the 190 pay scale at USAirways and JetBlue. The FO scale is the comparable to the REPUBLIC FO scale, but less than their 170/75/90 CA scale. The SkyWest CA's and FO's have a higher rate at those longevity points.

So I ask, where is the comparison?

Idiot.

 

[AWACoff]

I cannot believe what has become of Midwest Express. Wisconsin aviation is failing. From one native cheesehead to many others...good luck. That proposal is disgusting. Full pay to the last day has never rang more true. To see one of the best damn airlines failing it's employees... Crap...I can't even type. Good luck guys. This industry sucks.

 

[StaySeated]

Hello to all my MEH friends. When I saw TH's video, I knew I had heard his little speech before. In fact, I heard "the same, exact words" from F9's ceo just a few weeks ago. Not relatively close, exactly the same words.

We need pay cuts to get financing, everyone needs to share in the pain, fair and equitable, the judge will take much more than we are asking.

Let me guess, Timmy has hired the Seabury group to assist with their restructuring?

With regard to "pay cuts for financing", ask to see the term sheets. Ask Timmy for a contract between MEH and TPG with signatures that guarantees financing in return for a pay cut. You and I know that there is no financing and pay cuts have nothing to do with financing.

Have you heard about "lengthening the runway" yet? You will, in fact people will stop saying hello and goodby when they pass in the hall, instead they will just nod and repeat like robots "lengthen the runway, lengthen the runway"...

The story you will be told is, with these new paycuts (and the financing that is sure to materialize), MEH will be the strongest airline on the planet. You just need to lengthen the runway and survive the battle of attrition that exists in our industry today.

Initially, that "story" sounds reasonable, even logical. That is until you look at the numbers. What is your cash burn every day? How much financing do you realistically expect to be thrown at you? How long will that money, that doesn't actually exist, last in today's fuel environment?

The sad fact is, and I am speaking only about my airline as I have no right to tell you about yours, is that we are done. F9 never obtained financing, and never will unless we agree to interest rates higher than 15% which in itself is suicidal. In short order, we will begin to sell assets to obtain the only liquidity available. Once those dollars are gone, so are we.

If oil drops to $100 a barrel, "we will be the strongest airline on the planet...", unless you guys lengthen the runway. Then we will be the second strongest airline on the planet, until the next airline...

Is it too early to start drinking?

 

[Colonel Savage]

I think that with no fleet replacement plan already in place (way to go TH), which directly led to the furlough plan of 1/3 the pilot force, that any sort of requests for "sacrifices" from TH should be met with calls from the unions for his immediate resignation.