Teamsters Push for Southern Air

[nitefr8dog]

Concerning the vote on the resolution to merge with Teamsters Local 1224 the following certified results are official:

Total Eligible voters:***** 292

Total votes cast: 244***** (83.5%)
YES***** 217 yes (89% of actual voters)*****

NO 27

The Resolution is Passed.

You are so SCREWED!

 

[PCL_128]

You are so SCREWED!

Eh, they'll be knocking on ALPA's door as soon as they realize that 1224 is just as useless as 747. We just won the representational election over at North American Airlines on Thursday, making it the third airline in recent memory to decert the IBT and come to ALPA. Many more will follow.

 

[Talon757]

Having been in both the Teamsters and ALPA it seems that they are pretty much cut from the same cloth. The Teamster magazine had some nice truck pictures. The ALPA magazine held the record for the most mustaches. In the end, the primary job of these unions is to perpetuate the union. Anything else is secondary. Anything of lasting value originates with the individual pilots in the company for any given situation.

 

[cfire]

Eh, they'll be knocking on ALPA's door as soon as they realize that 1224 is just as useless as 747. We just won the representational election over at North American Airlines on Thursday, making it the third airline in recent memory to decert the IBT and come to ALPA. Many more will follow.

It appears three other carriers are exploring moving from ALPA in a serious fashion. Evergreen being one and they were Teamsters at one point, saw what ALPA did to them after moving over and are now going back to Teamsters. Say's a lot to me and having seen ALPA from the inside up in Herndon for nine years I can see why it's happening.

North American and ATI were tied up in the removal of Sowell at Teamsters 747 during the clean up of the local by Teamsters Airline Division leader Bourne. North American and ATI had deals for being more equal than the other carriers and when Sowell was removed by Bourne the NA and ATI leadership at those carriers decided to retaliate via decertification when their special deals were not going to be continued. Guess they will find out how little representation they will get now at ALPA. Especially now that North American it going into Section 6.

 

[PCL_128]

Evergreen isn't going anywhere. Keep dreaming.

 

[spitfire1500]

Not trying to flight with you, but We talk to ALPA and they won't Take (PFE) professional Flight Engineers,( our PFE "most" do not have Pilots licenses) Capital and Evergreen and ATI are (FE) Flight Engineers. which are pilots. trust me i would rather have ALPA any day.

Ours at Evergreen don't have pilot licenses either. The Chairman of our MEC is a PFE.

 

[l8fr82hub]

North American and ATI were tied up in the removal of Sowell at Teamsters 747 during the clean up of the local by Teamsters Airline Division leader Bourne. North American and ATI had deals for being more equal than the other carriers and when Sowell was removed by Bourne the NA and ATI leadership at those carriers decided to retaliate via decertification when their special deals were not going to be continued. Guess they will find out how little representation they will get now at ALPA. Especially now that North American it going into Section 6.

I think ATI will get the same crappy representation from ALPA as we did from the Teamsters, but at least we're now a safe distance from IBT1224 and their puppet Bourne.

 

[cfire]

And you get to pay more in dues for that pleasure.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I think ATI will get the same crappy representation from ALPA as we did from the Teamsters, but at least we're now a safe distance from IBT1224 and their puppet Bourne.

How does the grievance process between the two compare?

 

[l8fr82hub]

How does the grievance process between the two compare?

It's been less than a month since we voted ALPA in and there are a large number of outstanding grievances, so I think it's a little early to judge.

 

[PCL_128]

It's been less than a month since we voted ALPA in and there are a large number of outstanding grievances, so I think it's a little early to judge.

ALPA has done an incredible job at reducing our grievance backlog at AirTran. We started with nearly 200 grievances, and many of those have now been favorably settled. We're down to about 40 cases going to arbitration, and about 60 more cases to go to System Board. Big improvement in just a few months.

 

[l8fr82hub]

ALPA has done an incredible job at reducing our grievance backlog at AirTran. We started with nearly 200 grievances, and many of those have now been favorably settled. We're down to about 40 cases going to arbitration, and about 60 more cases to go to System Board. Big improvement in just a few months.

Glad it's working out well for Airtran, but as an ex-Emery guy and having seen ALPA's dark side I'll have to wait for some results to see if things have changed since Duane Woerthless' reign. Just glad that 1224 no longer has their knife at our back.

 

[ABXbooger]

I am not saying the IBT or 1224 is perfect, but, I have always though it came down to who would support a group during a time of labor problems, i.e. a strike. What is ALPA going to do to help you? DAL, etc going to stop flying your freight? Yeah, some guys will come out and walk the line with you, but when the rubber meets the road, if the freight doesn't move, the company loses money...bottom line. At least with the IBT you know your freight will not get put on a truck, moved by a truck, handled by another teamster, flown by any other IBT group, etc. Let's face it, your companies "revenue stream" is a lot closer to the IBT than anything ALPA has their hands near.

My other big gripe with ALPA was that if you weren't with DAL, NWA, USA, or the other legacies, you might as well kiss "fair" representation goodbye. ATI, etc will quickly realize that they are not in that category and do not get the same treatment as everyone else.

I truly hate the union vs. company thing but after 20 years of this, I know it is a necessary evil. Sad really. The flying part of the job is great, it's all the other political BS that really sucks!

 

[hvydriver]

I am not saying the IBT or 1224 is perfect, but, I have always though it came down to who would support a group during a time of labor problems, i.e. a strike. What is ALPA going to do to help you? DAL, etc going to stop flying your freight? Yeah, some guys will come out and walk the line with you, but when the rubber meets the road, if the freight doesn't move, the company loses money...bottom line. At least with the IBT you know your freight will not get put on a truck, moved by a truck, handled by another teamster, flown by any other IBT group, etc. Let's face it, your companies "revenue stream" is a lot closer to the IBT than anything ALPA has their hands near.

My other big gripe with ALPA was that if you weren't with DAL, NWA, USA, or the other legacies, you might as well kiss "fair" representation goodbye. ATI, etc will quickly realize that they are not in that category and do not get the same treatment as everyone else.

I truly hate the union vs. company thing but after 20 years of this, I know it is a necessary evil. Sad really. The flying part of the job is great, it's all the other political BS that really sucks!

Booger, I too hate the political crap we all put up with. However, if you can show me one instance of the IBT putting pressure on DHL, either air or ground, I'd appreciate it. All I've seen is a tiny bit of saber rattling then it's give back, give back, give back. And it's gotten the IBT precisely nowhere. I'm no great fan of ALPA either, but I don't see anything the IBT has done in regards to DHL that makes them any better.

 

[swordfish]

We at SA had to try somthing, I guess if IBT dosent work then we can always go back to SACG.

Thanks for everyones input. Time will only tell!

 

[hvydriver]

We at SA had to try somthing, I guess if IBT dosent work then we can always go back to SACG.

Thanks for everyones input. Time will only tell!

Good luck to you guys fish! I just don't see either entity doing much good for anybody.

 

[spitfire1500]

It appears three other carriers are exploring moving from ALPA in a serious fashion. Evergreen being one and they were Teamsters at one point, saw what ALPA did to them after moving over and are now going back to Teamsters. Say's a lot to me and having seen ALPA from the inside up in Herndon for nine years I can see why it's happening.

Really..what is your source. I work at Evergreen and have heard nothing or been asked to vote about going back to Teamsters.

 

[spitfire1500]

ALPA has done an incredible job at reducing our grievance backlog at AirTran. We started with nearly 200 grievances, and many of those have now been favorably settled. We're down to about 40 cases going to arbitration, and about 60 more cases to go to System Board. Big improvement in just a few months.

Glad its working out at Air Tran. I noticed right after Air Tran joined ALPA they got a pledged amount of $ for a strike fund almost immediately. Evergreen has been in talks longer than Air Tran...what about a pledged strike fund for EZ?

 

[ABXbooger]

Booger, I too hate the political crap we all put up with. However, if you can show me one instance of the IBT putting pressure on DHL, either air or ground, I'd appreciate it. All I've seen is a tiny bit of saber rattling then it's give back, give back, give back. And it's gotten the IBT precisely nowhere. I'm no great fan of ALPA either, but I don't see anything the IBT has done in regards to DHL that makes them any better.

I agree heavy, sadly. I have to ask what did ALPA do for you guys with DHL?

Unions v mgmt have sucked all the enjoyment out of an otherwise great job. I will miss the flying and the people, but I will NOT miss the constant, constant bs that has so markedly changed the piloting profession. ALPA, IBT, SWAPA, you name it, they all really have very little power in today's market.

 

[hvydriver]

I agree heavy, sadly. I have to ask what did ALPA do for you guys with DHL?

Unions v mgmt have sucked all the enjoyment out of an otherwise great job. I will miss the flying and the people, but I will NOT miss the constant, constant bs that has so markedly changed the piloting profession. ALPA, IBT, SWAPA, you name it, they all really have very little power in today's market.

Well, about the only thing I can point to on ALPA's score is we have a 6 months severance for all of us who are going to be shown the door shortly. That's about it. I agree about the power thing. They have none. They seem to me more interested in golf outings with manglement than doing what they are supposed to do. Like enforcing contracts, for example. Or other things. Like having a sack.

 

[DOVPILOT]

Concerning the vote on the resolution to merge with Teamsters Local 1224 the following certified results are official:

Total Eligible voters:***** 292

Total votes cast: 244***** (83.5%)
YES***** 217 yes (89% of actual voters)*****

NO 27

The Resolution is Passed.

Well at least it's not that POS 747 local, but it is the same bastard child

 

[PCL_128]

Glad its working out at Air Tran. I noticed right after Air Tran joined ALPA they got a pledged amount of $ for a strike fund almost immediately. Evergreen has been in talks longer than Air Tran...what about a pledged strike fund for EZ?

I doubt you've been in talks longer than us (over five years), but to the best of my knowledge, your MEC has never requested an MCF grant. You should call your MEC and ask about it. I guarantee you won't be turned down by the EXCL if your MEC requests it.

 

[ABUSED PILOT]

WE have had both. IBT/ ALPA. You are going to pay dues no matter what. With ALPA I think you get more bang for the buck.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Perhaps. But for sheer entertainment, you just can't beat USAPA.


PHXFLYR

 

[nitefr8dog]

Well, about the only thing I can point to on ALPA's score is we have a 6 months severance for all of us who are going to be shown the door shortly. That's about it. I agree about the power thing. They have none. They seem to me more interested in golf outings with manglement than doing what they are supposed to do. Like enforcing contracts, for example. Or other things. Like having a sack.

IBT 1224 just negotiated 10 months full pay for the furloughed pilots at ABX but the rest of the pilot group really took it in the shorts. (Hvy I hate to say it but you were right we got creamed thanks to the 1224 E Board giving everything away!)

 

[bukakke]

they gave nothing away! this money was earmarked for the severed pilots at ABX.........I guess nitefr8dog is one of the open flying jerks who couldnt get his overtime.

 

[nitefr8dog]

they gave nothing away! this money was earmarked for the severed pilots at ABX.........I guess nitefr8dog is one of the open flying jerks who couldnt get his overtime.

Actually, the DHL money as was testified before congress by DHL was "earmarked" for severance AND RETENTION. The pilots still flying did not receive anything! But besides that what I was talking about is the rest of the contract we lost in all area's. Working more, being paid less, frozen retirement, higher medical cost and a crappy plan. We got screwed even though the contract is not done and we have no job security going forward the Eboard decided the membership would be willing to start working the extra days NOW if the severance would be paid out.They should of thought to ask the pilot group first although we have plenty of sheep who will be glad to work extra days for no pay!

 

[hvydriver]

I did forget to mention on thing about the ALPA severance. That minimum of six months is for those of us who are still left flying, as extra pay and bennies once we are no longer needed. The guys who've been off since July from the 727 and the Bus are pay protected till Mar. 06, 2010. So there are varying degrees of how much extra bucks our guys are getting in this goat rope. So some (most) guys are going to be getting 10-11 months total in pay.

 

[metrodriver]

You guys need to look at a little bigger picture than just your own paycheck when it comes to unions. Without Alpa (and I don't know what influence teamsters has had) there would have been no CASS, no priority at security checkpoints (and a few "perks" that the general public does not have), no special crew lanes at some airports, no fight for better crew duty/rest rules, no push to get lithium batteies of cargo planes. Without unions the situation at quite a few companies out there would have been quite a bit worse for the employees. The few of us still fortunate to have a job would have been working for regional airline pay, fixing your own lunch box for every trip, sleeping in a motel 6 while management is pocketing the money (which most of them do anyway). I agree that even with a union the situation at a lot of companies is not rosy.

 

[Victor Meldrew]

At the end of the day all the unions are cut from the same cookie cutter. You just have to take what you've got and run with it. When it comes to non legacies (and even within them to a certain extent), arguing over IBT, ALPA et al, is like a "mine is bigger than yours" argument - it goes no where and the result doesn't change.

Having been under ALPA, 747 and 1224, if anything 1224 has the edge I would have to say IMHO.