Take bonus-stay in the Air Force or ??

[tanker2]

BeeVee,
From the other SWA post that just went up it sounds like you took the plunge and decided to stay in for 2 more years. In this game there is no right or wrong answer, so I recommend not kicking yourself over it for the duration. Last summer I got out, got married, and went on a honeymoon that ended early Sep. Had job offers from a major and a national. Everything for the wedding/honeymoon was planned before the job offers. I decided to keep the plans, and sacrifice a couple week's worth of class dates/seniority. Things changed, missed both jobs by less than two weeks, and am back to square one. However, I did beat the stop-loss, love my guard unit, and my wife and I are happy. I made my choice, and now I have to accept the consequences. But I made it once, someday I'll make it again, and until then we are happy. You and your family now have income and benefits and you are still flying. There will be more airline jobs waiting in two years, and assuming a 20-25 year airline career for you, a two year wait will not hurt your ability to live and retire comfortably. Best wishes with the choice. It's done, now just enjoy it and keep yourself prepped for your "next" DOS.

 

[houseopain]

BeeVee

As a close personal friend of Spomey...what are you thinkin'...How about another three year and see what happens...don't forget about the desert tour and you ought to see the ops tempo of the airlifters in centcom aor...bbeeeeoootttccccchhhhhh!

 

[AlbieF15]

OK, now for a slightly different angle...

I do the ANG/FedEx juggling act. Many will tell you its a pain to try to manage 2 jobs, and they are right...but...so far I kind of like the choices and options.

My unit just requested me for 30+ days to augment the unit since some of the squadron is going TDY and they need bodies at home to train students. Dispite the fact I will actually make more cash this month on orders than trying to do divide time between the 2 jobs, I have grown to like the flexibility of mixing and matching work days between the two. Somehow, doing both jobs makes me appreciate the good side in both of them. Being (and I hate to use this word but here goes) STUCK for 30+ days knowing I'm going to work 5 days per week at whatever the powers that be require suddenly feels a bit "stifiling" after being able to trip trade, pick up trips, etc. to create my own "custom" schedule. I'm not knocking flying Uncle Sam's fighters for Uncle Sam's wages (especially on 1st year pay!), but even a few months on the line has spoiled me with the EASE and flexibility of FedEx and the traditional Guardsman type gig.

Bottom line is the extra Guv'mint dollars have a cost--they own you for the period you are on orders. I am VERY greatful for the ANG position and I'd never leave it voluntarily, but it does jog my memory as to why I did want to leave active duty in the first place. Oh...and that email from the AETC CC that says all personal must now travel in dress blues when on official travel...that was a nice reminder too.

If you can hop on with FedEx, JetBlue, or SWA...I'd start kissin' some serious guard butt and get out. The freedom is intoxicating.

Just one guys take...and it is a TOUGH call. Let me know if I can help.

Albie

 

[NEO]

BeeVee,
AlbieF15 hit it right on the head... "If you can hop on with FedEx, JetBlue, or SWA...I'd start kissin' some serious guard butt and get out. The freedom is intoxicating."

You can't put a price on freedom. No amount of bonus money is worth selling your soul to an AF manning tool.

 

[Harry]

Freedom

BV - Take your freedom option and run. Two years ago, I passed up a bonus option because I wanted my freedom to pursue my second twenty year career [I would be on terminal leave with twenty years in now if not for Stop Loss]. I figured the airlines were hiring and the seniority would be the right thing to do. Now I am held in by Stop Loss without a job and not seriously looking or any airlines seriously looking at me because I can't give them a firm release date. Yes, I am missing the extra $45k, but I am still happy with my decision to get out now because I didn't like what I saw in my AF future [SSS, Joint Staff, and maybe back to the cockpit]. FREEDOM!
Harry

 

[CCDiscoB]

I sit here and read about Stop-Loss and dudes thinking about the bonus. I think "those poor bastards, thank God I got out!"

Here is another secret for pilots thinking about the Guard. But it's a secret, so keep it quiet. Sign on as a Technician. You will earn about 2x what you earn now (don't include bonus) (Unit with alert).

You want AGR, OK, sign on as an AGR and sign the bonus. No PCS, no SWA, No field grade TDY's for 90 days, and most importantly no staff job. Oh my head!! My head spins thinking about it.

I remember being on your side of the fence. Don't be afraid to burn some bridges. I had to take a flame thrower to them. There was even a stop-loss when I got out. Do it!! I returned home, now I never miss a Little League game, I have tons of time-off and my wife says this is the best job we've ever had. I was walking back from lunch today smiling as I was thinking about the freedom I have with no commitments. Now if the airlines would start hiring again....anyway...don't lose sight of your dream job, just because of a little bump in the road.

I'm mail you some matches.

 

[llowwelll]

BeeVee,
What would be even more criminal than passing up the $25K per year bonus would be selling your soul and control of your life and destiny to the Air Force for $25K per year. By NOT taking the bonus you give yourself and your family a major bonus in terms of options and freedom.
Sure, the airlines aren't hiring so much right now, but as sure as the sun will rise, they will hire again and you'll be much better positioned to take advantage of that fact than the folks who locked themselves into the bonus in the panicked months after 9/11.
In many ways, an Air Force pilot nailed down by an ADSC or a bonus is like an indentured servant. Why would you want that yoke over your shoulders?

 

[Caveman]

While I can't disagree with the logic of the financial aspect of this discussion I find it very ironic that folks are suddenly extremly philosophical about their preference for freedom when a military commitment is what allowed them to be in this position in the first place. I guess being an indentured servant for the first 8 or so years is o.k. but anything more than that is foolish. Stay or go, either way is a valid choice but why the sudden aversion to a long term commitment based on philosophical reasons?

 

[looseca]

Wow Caveman! You is smart...

 

[skiddriver]

Not quite right on the AGR issue CCDiscoB. I just had a friend ship over from active duty USMC (Cobra guy) to AGR (A-10 guy). He finished training, got back home, and just mobilized and deployed. AGR generally means no deployments during peacetime.

Typical jarhead, he was rarin' to go. His wife was less enthused.

 

[pilot141]

Caveman,
Please don't give us the "in for 20+" speech again. At what point do we become team players? Everyone here made a decision to serve their country - and they did, and they also served out their contract with the guv'ment. They are now wrestling with the very tough decision as whether or not Uncle Sam controls the NEXT 10 years of their life as well as the LAST ten years. Do you think everyone signed the original commitments without thinking about the affects they would have on their lives? How about the majority of folks who found wives and had kids during their time in service? Are they being too "philosphical" when they want to coach their son's little league team?
Besides that, most of the people here are talking about leaving active duty and continuing to serve in the Guard or Reserve. Are they quitting the team? The people we are talking about have done and will do more for their country than 90% of the American population, yet some still question whether they are "team players" because they re-evaluate their options when able to do so. I say that they are keeping the country and the democracy alive by soliciting opinions in an open forum and then exercising their right to the pursuit of happiness.
Of course, this is just an 11-year Team Player who bailed to AA and the Reserves talking, but I probably have enough happiness now to fill up 4 ADO slots!

 

[MsFan]

A friend of mine explained it to me this way. You can get out now, get a guard/reserve job (definitely), try to land a job with FedEx, SWA, or JetBlue. Worst case is you have to live on your guard pay for a year or two until you get a job. You will get a job though, maybe sooner than you think. Meanwhile, you're making peanuts for money the first couple years while your children are young. When they're 18 and getting ready for college you are making very good money and probably have a good schedule based on your 10 years of seniority so you're able to go the the football games, daughter/father dances, etc etc.

Now say you take the 10 year bonus. Yeah, you get a sh!tload of money up front, but you're either TDY 200 some days a year or you're sitting in a cubicle not building up flying time compared to all those stop-lossed C-17 pilots someone was talking about. Not to mention you're moving every 2 years to meet the "needs of the AF." At the 20 year point you're 43 or so, kids are getting ready for college and you're looking for a job. You will get a job, but you're making peanuts for money and you're sitting reserve somewhere and aren't home much (unless you're lucky enough to live in domicile). And you've got less than 20 years to build up that airline retirement.

I've always said I'd rather sell vacuum cleaners at Sears than give the AF another 10 years to suck the life out of me. If you can get a Guard/Reserve job, do it and get the heck out. If you can score a technician job you're gonna make as much money as you're making now and you'll have a lot more control of your life. And you can still get that AF retirement, with a heck of a lot less pain. You want to be available when that major comes calling, because they will.

I have many friends who are trying to make the same decision you are. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Caveman]

Pilot141,

I wrote : "Stay or go, either way is a valid choice....."

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't comment one way or the other about being a lifer or being a 'team player' and I didn't mention anything about being "in for 20+" either. This thread started out asking about a financial decision. My experience, and I stated it, was that I found my retirement check to be very handy during a strike/furlough. Most of the other posters recommended an alternate approach that, frankly, made a lot of sense. Then the thread took a turn towards the realities of a military commitment and the loss of freedom in your life as a result. I just found it unusual that pilots that were o.k. with making an initial 10 year commitment now generally thought that the loss of freedoms was too high a price. I didn't comment on anybodies patriotism or anything like that. My question was almost rhetorical. In other words, things that make you go hmmm?

 

[CCDiscoB]

I find it interesting that Caveman writes about military issues and only has civilian time. I'm sure I missed his career in pervious posts. Caveman, are you a 20 year Marine?

Anyway, I think AF pilots look at their initial commitment in a way that is similar to how a civilian pilot looks at a training contract. It's a contract, sign here and fly some amazing machines. No one should complain after they sign the contract. What gets AF dudes upset is we are made to feel guilty after our initial contract is complete. They make us accept continued commitments because we are forced to move or regain or flying currency. I know a few pilots that have unhappily signed the bonus because they incurred a training commitment. That's where the feeling of being an indentured servant comes from.

AF pilot training used to be only 6 year commitment after pilot training. Now it's an incredible 11 years! (10 years after pilot training) This time frame takes a pilot to the point where he/she has pinned on Major and incurred a commitment for the new rank. Would I do it again? Yes. Would I start at age 30 looking at 41 when my commitment ended? No. I guess it depends on what your goals in life are.

 

[skiddriver]

Yes he's a 20+ year retired Marine, and so am I. I fully understand your issues with stop-loss as a manning tool. The Air Force has a problem with that. The most expensive service per capita with the best quality of life out of all of the services, and they can't retain their people. Makes you wonder why. The junior guys say it's because the leadership is so bad. The senior guys say that it's a lack of dedication by the junior guys. Who's right?

That said, I'm a Marine who actually believes we need a fully manned and equipped Air Force. Since your leadership can't seem to pay you all enough to stay in, and since any other cultural changes they might be able to make are going to take years to implement and have effect on target, unless we just distribute your assets lock stock and barrel to the other services, it looks like stop-loss is the only answer.

Why is it any of Caveman's and my business? Let me see...oh yeah - we're citizens in this great republic - yeah, that's it.

BTW, the Air Force pilots I know didn't look at their "initial commitment in a way that is similar to how a civilian pilot looks at a training contract." They looked at it as a chance to serve their country doing something they loved, which I'm sure is how you looked at it too. Hope you still do.