Tab Express (Deland, FL) Shuts Down!

[DAS at 10/250]

Originally Posted by Flyguy6
I have a question about PFT. I notice a lot of people get ill when you mention PFT. I really dont kow much about it so I dont have an opinion. But I would like to ask this. I am 37 years old and I want to be an airline pilot. If I wait to get the CFI job and bukid hours for 2 years just to get a charter job flying Barons for anotyher two years and then get to an airline.Iwil be too old to have a career. So whats wrong with an older person that wants to be a profesional pilot to do PFT? Its gets you to your goal before you get too old Everyones situation doesnt allow them to go the traditional route. Just asking. I did go the traditionalroute.It took me ten years to get my commercial lisence. I went from FBO to FBO and flew when Ihad the money. I am in Iraq now with the NAtional Guard trying to earn money for my multi and CFI.

Flyguy 6, thanks for serving and I wish you home soon.

Towards your question, would you want your commanding officer to be someone who had worked their way up into their position and possessed all the experience that came with serving their "time in grade" along the way or someone who dropped $50K at some Commanding Officer Academy and didn't know the first thing about leading troops outside of book knowledge. You and I both know there is a difference in someone "filling a slot" and someone who can lead on experience. For the same reason we don't put E-1's in command of troops we also shouldn't put 500 hour pilots at the wheel of a passenger jet.

Again, hurry home and watch your six. Salute.

 

[CMRdvr]

DAS at 10/250,

I think you just described a 2nd Lt. No offense.

What is the difference between an E2 and a 2nd Lt?

The E2 has been promoted!(all in good fun)

 

[Pilot877]

That's exactly the piont, these crooks who take advantage of people who don't really know anything about aviation yet, all they know is thier dream of wanting a flying job, hell years ago when I just got started if someone told me they could get me on with a airline in record fast time, I to would of at least seriously considered it.

I agree, has anybody noticed that 50% of the content of Flying magazine is glossy ads that depict students in uniforms who are all on the fast-track to airline jobs? Maybe the users of Flightinfo can pool their money together and take out an anti-PFT ad as a public service. My point is, PFT may be a dirty word around here, but all these prospective students have to go on are magazine ads that get them all starry-eyed with the promise of "career" employment as a Regional Airline First Officer. I feel bad for them. They are not trying to "cut in line" in front of anybody else. They have no idea what some of us have done to get to where we are now. For all they know, we are all airline academy graduates ourselves.

Personally, I know somebody who was scammed there before the B1900 Florida airline idea ever came to the surface. He went there because the instructors were all supposed to be airline pilots, so who better to teach students? Also, the idea of training in a King Air is preferable to a Seminole or Seneca. So, he did not "get what he deserved". Everybody is entitled to their opinion on here, but I don't regard you guys as "big-shots" for taking pleasure in other people getting scammed by TAB. I am sure that they don't need an anti-PFT education now, anyway.

 

[hbrow15]

DAS at 10/250,

I think you just described a 2nd Lt. No offense.

What is the difference between an E2 and a 2nd Lt?

The E2 has been promoted!(all in good fun)

Aint that the truth, ever been under the command of a 2nd LT thats an academy grad. He has nothing but book leadership and yet he has more authority than Gunny with 15 yrs and afew combat tours.

 

[kingaira90]

Justice on the way?....Maybe

A buddy of mine just sent this to me. -kingaira90

This was straight from AOPA’s web site this morning:
FLORIDA FLIGHT SCHOOL UNDER INVESTIGATION
The Florida Attorney General's office has confirmed that it is investigating the TAB Express International flight school in Deland, Florida, which closed suddenly in mid-June, stranding students. A spokeswoman for Attorney General Charlie Christ said 40 to 50 students from as far away as Japan lost up to $100,000 each, although newspaper accounts say 80 students were affected. Students were required to pay all the funds at the beginning of their training. The Orlando Sentinel reported the school used the Ohio-based Key Bank to make loans to the students. When the bank cut off loan funds, the school's key source of funding was lost, the newspaper said. "The flight school said it had an airline and that if students flew for it for two years their loans would be repaid, but they didn't have an airline," said the spokeswoman for the attorney general. Highway billboards and signs on public buses indicate that TAB Express operates flights from Daytona Beach. However, an airport official in Daytona Beach said that while the company rents ticket-counter space with the words "TAB Express" on a sign, it never operated flights from there.

The bolded is classic Mitch M.

 

[Ice Hawk]

I feel sorry for the students who spend 100,000 and will probably never get it back. I don't have a problem with legit PFT programs because to me they sound like a great way for people to break into the industry without years of instructing. TAB Express was a scam operation tho and I hope the students get ther money back.

 

[pullmyfinger]

Legit PFT? You have to be kidding me.

Though it must suck to be in their shoes, I do not feel sorry for them.

 

[Yellow Snow]

I feel sorry for the students who spend 100,000 and will probably never get it back. I don't have a problem with legit PFT programs because to me they sound like a great way for people to break into the industry without years of instructing. TAB Express was a scam operation tho and I hope the students get ther money back.

For every newly minted commercial pilot willing to do PFT there is an experienced pilot who cannot feed his or her family.

 

[fliynhi]

I feel sorry for the students who spend 100,000 and will probably never get it back. I don't have a problem with legit PFT programs because to me they sound like a great way for people to break into the industry without years of instructing. TAB Express was a scam operation tho and I hope the students get ther money back.

Oh man!! You just opened up a big ole can of poopy! I hope you're ready for the personal attacks to begin. I do have to agree with pullmyfinger though; there is no such thing a "legit pft". Unfortunately, you probably won't find too many people on this board that will explain to you why pft is wrong. They prefer name calling and personal attacks. I will attempt explain it to you, but I am just beginning to understand it all myself. The basic problem, as I understand it, is that it takes jobs away from more "qualified" pilots. The reason I qouted qualified is that there are some low time pilots who are ready to take the step to higher performance aircraft. However, the majority of those that use pft, are nowhere near ready for anything more than a light twin, at most. Ask a blue collar industrial worker why they hate NAFTA and it will probably be very similar to the hatred of PFT in this industry. I know this hasn't been the best explanation, but hopefully it will get someone else to explain it more clearly instead of just attacking you personally. Do some more research and hopefully it will clear up your misunderstanding of PFT.

 

[Flyguy6]

Originally Posted by Flyguy6
I have a question about PFT. I notice a lot of people get ill when you mention PFT. I really dont kow much about it so I dont have an opinion. But I would like to ask this. I am 37 years old and I want to be an airline pilot. If I wait to get the CFI job and bukid hours for 2 years just to get a charter job flying Barons for anotyher two years and then get to an airline.Iwil be too old to have a career. So whats wrong with an older person that wants to be a profesional pilot to do PFT? Its gets you to your goal before you get too old Everyones situation doesnt allow them to go the traditional route. Just asking. I did go the traditionalroute.It took me ten years to get my commercial lisence. I went from FBO to FBO and flew when Ihad the money. I am in Iraq now with the NAtional Guard trying to earn money for my multi and CFI.

Flyguy 6, thanks for serving and I wish you home soon.

Towards your question, would you want your commanding officer to be someone who had worked their way up into their position and possessed all the experience that came with serving their "time in grade" along the way or someone who dropped $50K at some Commanding Officer Academy and didn't know the first thing about leading troops outside of book knowledge. You and I both know there is a difference in someone "filling a slot" and someone who can lead on experience. For the same reason we don't put E-1's in command of troops we also shouldn't put 500 hour pilots at the wheel of a passenger jet.

Again, hurry home and watch your six. Salute.

Actually, youjust described a new LT, which I used to be one. In the military we put people incharge based on their educationlevel and not neccessarily their experience. I am a 1LT because Iwent to OCS. I used to be enlisted so Iknow the deal,but Iunderstand what you are saying Ijust dont ee the connection. Whats the difference between giving Tab express $10,000 to build time and renting a piper semnole for 100 hours of flight time?

 

[tripin]

I am a low time pilot, having just received my ASEL. I looked into some of these PFT operators, and specifically TAB Express, as a means of getting there faster. I wrote them, and they sent me their little information package. The whole thing had 'SCAM' written all over it. Man, if you fall for that garbage, either you are desperate, or you are too stupid to fly planes in the first place. One of the characteristics of a good pilot is 'showing good judgement'. Anyone who fell for the TAB Express rip off, is sorely lacking in judgement period.
I am currently working towards an instrument rating at a local FBO. Sure it will take longer, but I get personalised training, I pay for the training only AFTER I have received it, and I can vary the frequency to suit my budget, and I can change schools at any time if I don't like what I'm getting, without losing any money. When I'm done, I will not owe anyone a cent.
Come on people, get real....$100K upfront for a couple of ratings anda promise of a career? Get a grip.

_________________________________________
Fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life

 

[Pilot877]

tripin, it sounds like you have your head screwed on straight...

Yeah, it is just unfortunate that people are desperate to do anything to "Live the Dream", and some mid-life career-changers feel the need to make up for lost time quickly. Of course, that isn't the only reason, as there are apparently a lot of younger people doing this as well.

Anyway, like I said, the person I know went there when it was just a flight school with King Air's, not a wannabe airline with BE1900's. After all, the real intra-Florida commuter airlines are SWA and the DLC carriers. That is some pretty tough competetion for a turboprop start-up with GIA already in the market as well.

So, out of curiousity, what are some of the things in the brochure that made you call B.S. on TAB and go the FBO route? (Good for you, by the way.) I am just wondering how people get suckered into the scams of these places, because you obviously have to at least attempt to do some research beyond looking at glossy magazine ad's before you plop down $20,000 to $100,000 on a flight school.

Maybe if some prospective student happens to stumble upon this website, they can read about exactly why they shouldn't fall for it, and how they do not need PFT to have an airline career, nor is it the necessarily the best way to get there. The thing is, these companies are trying to sell you on how they can get you seniority and longevity at an airline faster than the traditional way. Of course to our culture in general, faster seems better, but I would not trade my CFI and 135 experiences for any PFT program, even if it would have been faster. It is the most fun you get to have in an airplane before it actually becomes a real job. You also get the most important part: to learn how to make real decisions, and accept the outcomes and consequences of those decisions. (a.k.a. gaining experience in the real world)

Besides, it really is absurd if you put it into perspective with other professional careers: "What if YOU could go from a high-school graduate to a position as a PAID Neurosurgeon in just six months!! We have the HOSPITAL CONNECTIONS!! With our guaranteed 250 hours of actual PAID SURGICAL EXPERIENCE, there is no need to waste time in an actual medical school or lengthy residency. Call today, 1-800-I-B-DR.-NOW, for our free brochure to put your career on the fast track!"

OK, that was intentionally dramatic; but either way, you have people's lives in your hands, why would somebody hire or use the services of a doctor like that? Now, why should pilots be any different?

The eternal debate: TO PFT, OR NOT TO PFT? That is the question!

(rant over)

 

[tripin]

I saw their glossy ad in a magazine, I think it was AOPA Flight Training, and decided to check it out. At that time, I was checking out all the training options available to me. Theirs was simply one of them. I wrote them for their info pamphlet, and then started doing some research online. I believe this very forum had some negative comments about the guys running that show back then already (last summer). It never took a lot of research to find out that these guys were less than totally honest business people. Right there was the first red flag. Then when I discovered one had to pay that amount of money up front, I ended my research on them right away.
I may have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night!!!

My continued research on the best route to follow, all pointed me in the FBO direction. After checking out a couple in my area, I made my choice, and never looked back. They provide me with a choice of good instructors, excellently maintained planes, and the flexibility of the training is a major bonus.
I am now building hours slowly but surely, and hope to become a CFI in time. I AM one of those midlife crisis people. Not desperate, just wanting a little more out of life, and have always loved planes.

I am astounded that people will lay out $100K large, and not do research. Cos that's what they did. Either they did NO research, or they did it, but ignored the obvious red flags. I feel for these people, but the only way some people learn, is by taking a beating.

 

[GeneralAv]

Most of the people checking out these types of 'academies' have no clue that they should be leary, a phone call to inquire gets you a seasoned 'marketer' whose job is to get them to lock in and commit before they have time to research. People think of airline piloting as an honorable career, and have no reason to think that they are dealing with anything other than a normal flight school. Once they have figured it out, the academy already has all their money, no choice but to stick it out and hope the academy stays open, and the guaranteed interview actually turns into a job so they can start paying off the huge loan....sad.

 

[Pilot877]

tripin, I hope you find the happiness you are looking for in aviation. Sometimes it is a pain in the rear, but I wouldn't want to do anything else. As you are a mid-life career changer, I'm sure that you will be able to appreciate that even more than I can, since it is the only career that I have experienced. By the way, don't let age discourage you, I have a friend who got into aviation mid-life and now has a great career flying Lear's, without the use of an academy.

GeneralAv, you make a great point about the marketing departments of some of these academies. Just look at Comair Academy (I can't bring myself to call it "Delta Connection") sending people SA tickets to Orlando to tour the academy. I'm sure they don't have to sell too hard on the tour once they get people thinking that they can actually be flying that nice shiny new CRJ they just rode in on. Plus, they market the Delta name heavily, something that I think is misleading. Well, at least they don't charge you to fly right seat for 250 hours in an RJ.