Ta reached at 9e

[Clutch]

You have no idea what you are talking about. The ATL 767ER flies both INTL and DOM trips. I picked up a domestic 3 day and I did a leg through MSP. Enjoy ASA, those massive retirement funds you have, and Dothan.



Bye Bye----General Lee

Whoa! You may talk S about certain people or certain airlines... But I'll be damned if I sit by and let you trash Dothan.

 

[General Lee]

Whoa! You may talk S about certain people or certain airlines... But I'll be damned if I sit by and let you trash Dothan.

I said ENJOY it. Can't you read? Are you trashing Dothan?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Clutch]

I said ENJOY it. Can't you read? Are you trashing Dothan?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Well, yeah. But I'm allowed to trash it. I own a single-wide there... Enjoy Paris.

 

[flyboyike]

You can always turn down the flow like many senior Mesaba guys did. Talk about a mistake! The Compass guys and 108(?) Mesaba guys got class dates with no interview or medical/psych. And some Mesaba guys turned it down? Wow...

Something that bears mentioning about flows is that they tend to disappear. Compass guys hired after 8/2010 don't get the benefit of a flowup, but get all the risk of a flushback. The only way I personally would sign off on a flow is if the entire group got mainline numbers the date of the signing. Not a promise of a number, but an actual number.

 

[General Lee]

Something that bears mentioning about flows is that they tend to disappear. Compass guys hired after 8/2010 don't get the benefit of a flowup, but get all the risk of a flushback. The only way I personally would sign off on a flow is if the entire group got mainline numbers the date of the signing. Not a promise of a number, but an actual number.

Many of the senior Comair pilots thought the same way you do. They were offered preferential hiring before 9-11, and turned it down. Many of them could have used that to move up, but instead said no. Something that gives you a better chance than most is a good thing. Also, management controls the hiring, not the pilots. Your grandfathered Compass pilots will still move on and help you move up there, and the other legacies will hire a ton also. Did you just get on with Compass? Where were you before? Comair or ASA?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

Also, management controls the hiring, not the pilots.

That is true, General, But just like everything else, it's negotiable. Management controls the money, too, but you negotiate for pay. You've simply chosen not to negotiate for something to solve the race to the bottom with your feeder carriers. The result is that all of them will end up at the lowest common denominator. And then we end up right back where we were 10 years ago: a 78-seat airplane being outsourced has a huge cost advantage over the smallest mainline airplane, and management comes to you with demands that you allow more outsourcing. When you refuse, they'll find another way to get what they want (like bankruptcy). The only way to truly fix the problem is to eliminate the cost advantage of outsourcing airplanes to the regionals. As long as you turn a blind eye to the plight of the Comair or Pinnacle pilot, your own contract is at risk.

 

[General Lee]

That is true, General, But just like everything else, it's negotiable. Management controls the money, too, but you negotiate for pay. You've simply chosen not to negotiate for something to solve the race to the bottom with your feeder carriers. The result is that all of them will end up at the lowest common denominator. And then we end up right back where we were 10 years ago: a 78-seat airplane being outsourced has a huge cost advantage over the smallest mainline airplane, and management comes to you with demands that you allow more outsourcing. When you refuse, they'll find another way to get what they want (like bankruptcy). The only way to truly fix the problem is to eliminate the cost advantage of outsourcing airplanes to the regionals. As long as you turn a blind eye to the plight of the Comair or Pinnacle pilot, your own contract is at risk.

PCL,

Essentially everyone has figured out that 50 seaters and high gas don't mix. But, 70 and 76 seaters on those 50 seat routes might be able to squeeze out a profit. Throw in your 717s coming in to replace many of those 76 seaters in their current routes that used to be mainline anyway (like DTW to IAH), and the circle is complete. Essentially mainline has recaptured old mainline routes, and at good mainline rates. A ratio was put in there to favor mainline planes, and overall RJ numbers were reduced. New mainline hiring (up to 1000 due to the 88 717s), will hopefully include you and many PNCL and Compass pilots. Other legacy airlines will start hiring big time too.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Clutch]

Can we get back to the real subject.. Pinnacle pilots are a bunch of ghetto gagging cum guzzlers

 

[PCL_128]

PCL,

Essentially everyone has figured out that 50 seaters and high gas don't mix. But, 70 and 76 seaters on those 50 seat routes might be able to squeeze out a profit. Throw in your 717s coming in to replace many of those 76 seaters in their current routes that used to be mainline anyway (like DTW to IAH), and the circle is complete. Essentially mainline has recaptured old mainline routes, and at good mainline rates. A ratio was put in there to favor mainline planes, and overall RJ numbers were reduced. New mainline hiring (up to 1000 due to the 88 717s), will hopefully include you and many PNCL and Compass pilots. Other legacy airlines will start hiring big time too.


Bye Bye---General Lee

General, I don't disagree with your assessment that the new PWA was a step in the right direction on recapturing scope. The problem is what is happening at the regional level in the aftermath. Those 70-76 seat airplanes that are profitable on the old 50-seat routes are being forced into a race to the bottom by Anderson, and the Delta MEC sits idly by and allows it to happen. The end result will be a huge gulf between 76-seat CA pay at the regionals and 717 pay at mainline. That's a recipe for disaster. And that doesn't even consider the fact that it's just immoral to not reach out to help your union brothers and sisters at the regional carriers that feed you.

 

[Flyer1015]

General, I don't disagree with your assessment that the new PWA was a step in the right direction on recapturing scope. The problem is what is happening at the regional level in the aftermath. Those 70-76 seat airplanes that are profitable on the old 50-seat routes are being forced into a race to the bottom by Anderson, and the Delta MEC sits idly by and allows it to happen. The end result will be a huge gulf between 76-seat CA pay at the regionals and 717 pay at mainline. That's a recipe for disaster. And that doesn't even consider the fact that it's just immoral to not reach out to help your union brothers and sisters at the regional carriers that feed you.

Immoral? Really? How can DALPA help 9E when they were totally cut out of the negotiations that were between 9E MEC and Delta management.