T-38C production line
- Thread starter Huggyu2
- Start date
phantomdriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2005
- Posts
- 115
- Total Time
- >360hr
I dont know
FastCargo
Is that the tanker?
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2001
- Posts
- 240
- Total Time
- 3200
Huggy,
There was a posting for a USAF TR position at Willy Gateway back about 6 months ago. The TR tour was only supposed to be about 3 years, then the position would go away entirely. So my guess was about 3-4 years from the time of the position opening.
FastCargo
There was a posting for a USAF TR position at Willy Gateway back about 6 months ago. The TR tour was only supposed to be about 3 years, then the position would go away entirely. So my guess was about 3-4 years from the time of the position opening.
FastCargo
FastC,
Thanks. I take it you're still in the RND gig? I'm still wondering if anyone out there has over 3K in the Talon. No one here (yet), but getting close.
What do you like better: T-38A with PMP, or T-38C with PMP?
Huggy
Thanks. I take it you're still in the RND gig? I'm still wondering if anyone out there has over 3K in the Talon. No one here (yet), but getting close.
What do you like better: T-38A with PMP, or T-38C with PMP?
Huggy
FastCargo
Is that the tanker?
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2001
- Posts
- 240
- Total Time
- 3200
Huggy,
That's a good question! I know most (if not ALL) of the reservists have over 2k hours... There's gotta be some close to 3k. I have 2600+ right now...
Actually, ol' JT on the active duty side may have 3k...remember JT from Beale? Or maybe Hoz?
Anyway, as far as I know, there isn't a T-38A model with PMP. All our PMP mods have been converted to T-38Cs first. As far as flying goes, the T-38C PMP jets just plain ROCK! I find the performance really doesn't feel that much different at anything above about 200 knots.
Couple of minor issues:
1) Because the speeds have been bumped up 5 knots, with the appropriate changes in AOA, I find that I tend to instinctively pull about .65 AOA to get the same 'feel' in the final turn as the A model.
2) There isn't TOLD TAB data for really high PA altitudes...so technically, we are not allowed to stay at C Springs. Even though the PMP jets are much better for TOLD.
That's about it...there have been about a billion PIT syllabus changes however. Don't even ask me about that...it gets impossible to keep up....
FastCargo
That's a good question! I know most (if not ALL) of the reservists have over 2k hours... There's gotta be some close to 3k. I have 2600+ right now...
Actually, ol' JT on the active duty side may have 3k...remember JT from Beale? Or maybe Hoz?
Anyway, as far as I know, there isn't a T-38A model with PMP. All our PMP mods have been converted to T-38Cs first. As far as flying goes, the T-38C PMP jets just plain ROCK! I find the performance really doesn't feel that much different at anything above about 200 knots.
Couple of minor issues:
1) Because the speeds have been bumped up 5 knots, with the appropriate changes in AOA, I find that I tend to instinctively pull about .65 AOA to get the same 'feel' in the final turn as the A model.
2) There isn't TOLD TAB data for really high PA altitudes...so technically, we are not allowed to stay at C Springs. Even though the PMP jets are much better for TOLD.
That's about it...there have been about a billion PIT syllabus changes however. Don't even ask me about that...it gets impossible to keep up....
FastCargo
talondriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2002
- Posts
- 330
- Total Time
- 3K+
Right now Mesa is finishing up Laughlin's and the Navy TPS jets. Then Sheppard. After that, who knows.Huggyu2 said:
Huggy- any words on ACC buying the mod?
Last edited:
We already have a few C models here at KSPS. No word on the PMP for us, though. I don't think it's going to happen for YEARS. (thank the whole international flair for that, I suppose...ENJJPT has its own decision process)
LJDRVR
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 1,135
- Total Time
- 13000
The closest animal would be NASA's T-38N models, they've had the the PMP done. The cockpit is still essentially an A model though, with the exception of a EADI/EHSI and Universal UNS-1K FMS and HUD.FastCargo said:
Last edited:
talondriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2002
- Posts
- 330
- Total Time
- 3K+
I hear there's a problem with the PMP jets getting too hot in places. Any word on the fix?FastCargo said:
I was at the Pentagon last month, and a friend of mine who's a Beltway Bandit (and a former Sq/CC) said that we are funded for PMP, but not the C-model (yet). I believe he said FY 08 for the PMP. I didn't have him clarify if he meant ACC as a whole, or just Beale. I've got to assume that it's for all 41 of ACC's T-38 jets.
But, I can't imagine that the USAF is going to allow 41 jets to remain A-models at the end of the production line. It just makes no sense to have a split fleet. I'm thinking that an 11th hour funding decision will happen about 6 months before they close the line at Willy.
No TOLD TAB data for high PA's??? Crazy talk!
Barnowl: say hello to Vosko.
But, I can't imagine that the USAF is going to allow 41 jets to remain A-models at the end of the production line. It just makes no sense to have a split fleet. I'm thinking that an 11th hour funding decision will happen about 6 months before they close the line at Willy.
No TOLD TAB data for high PA's??? Crazy talk!
Barnowl: say hello to Vosko.
Last edited:
LJDRVR
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 1,135
- Total Time
- 13000
Never ceases to amaze mw what a small world aviation is. Three Beale alumni on this post. (One recce type, one IP and one enlisted puke)
The Captain I've been flying with this month is a retired Lt Col who went through PIT back in 81' with my Basic Training Squadron CC. Small world.
The Captain I've been flying with this month is a retired Lt Col who went through PIT back in 81' with my Basic Training Squadron CC. Small world.
FastCargo
Is that the tanker?
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2001
- Posts
- 240
- Total Time
- 3200
Hot fix?
Mil and Max power ON THE GROUND are now limited to 5 minutes. It's really only relevant for the 'oil pressure reduction during a cold day' restriction.
If you're talking about something else, I haven't a clue...
FastCargo
PS Huggy, I remember Vosko, just saw him recently at alt chamber refresh training...along with Guy N.
Well, if you're talking about the tailpipe heat at MIL/MAX on the ground, the ops limits have changed slightly for PMP jets.talondriver said:
Mil and Max power ON THE GROUND are now limited to 5 minutes. It's really only relevant for the 'oil pressure reduction during a cold day' restriction.
If you're talking about something else, I haven't a clue...
FastCargo
PS Huggy, I remember Vosko, just saw him recently at alt chamber refresh training...along with Guy N.
Floyd R. Turbo
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Posts
- 101
- Total Time
- 6500+
Surely JT has over 3000... Huggy, I'd have thought you would be close too... No?
What is PMP? The only technological "advance" I ever saw was the throttle gate.
Great quote, Fast...
What is PMP? The only technological "advance" I ever saw was the throttle gate.
Great quote, Fast...
Mud Eagle
Aviator
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2001
- Posts
- 515
- Total Time
- 69
It is the NASA modification which re-shapes the inlets and nozzles. It also changes the engine a little, adding in a ceramic compressor core and changing the blades a but. The whole thing reportedly adds 19% to the takeoff static thrust.Floyd R. Turbo said:
It adds a little bit, but it's barely noticeable. Even worse is that the 'fat lip' intakes add enough drag that the jet is actually slower at altitude.
Mr Turbo! You weren't at Oshkosh, you slacker!
The PMP is the "Propulsion Modification Program". The USAF borrowed NASA's 10+ year old redesign of the intake and exhaust to get more static thrust for takeoff performance. I've got a whopping 1.1 hours in the back of a Moody C-model, so that's about all I know about it (other than a lot of rumor). In early 2003, the regular T-38 TOLD that you would remember got relooked at, and changed for the more conservative. We now go Cat III anytime the sun is shining.
I'll check with JT. I'm hoping to crack 3K in March, and am curious to see if there are any other active Talon Drivers with that much. I know there used to be a lot, but not anymore. I'm planning a 4 ship with 7 drivers (me solo, of course) and I'm thinking we can get 13K hours of Talon experience in the formation. Plus, it's another opportunity to have a party.
Change 1: I see Mud Eagle's post. Sorry I repeated what he said.
The PMP is the "Propulsion Modification Program". The USAF borrowed NASA's 10+ year old redesign of the intake and exhaust to get more static thrust for takeoff performance. I've got a whopping 1.1 hours in the back of a Moody C-model, so that's about all I know about it (other than a lot of rumor). In early 2003, the regular T-38 TOLD that you would remember got relooked at, and changed for the more conservative. We now go Cat III anytime the sun is shining.
I'll check with JT. I'm hoping to crack 3K in March, and am curious to see if there are any other active Talon Drivers with that much. I know there used to be a lot, but not anymore. I'm planning a 4 ship with 7 drivers (me solo, of course) and I'm thinking we can get 13K hours of Talon experience in the formation. Plus, it's another opportunity to have a party.
Change 1: I see Mud Eagle's post. Sorry I repeated what he said.
Last edited:
Floyd R. Turbo
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Posts
- 101
- Total Time
- 6500+
Don't worry about the repetition, you know I need four or five times for it to sink in. JT told me about that mod, I didn't realize that was the name.
I was bummed about not making Oshkosh, but looking at jumpseating and renting cars and parking and yada yada yada.... and having to get back in time for my trip, I wussed out... Flying in is the only way to go, so hopefully next year everything will align and I'll be camping in the vintage area again.
Had dinner with Crash tonight (Had to do a quick YC touch and go to check on my house), he seemed fired up about the OST. Whatsa matter, couldn't get anyone to fly with you?
Wish I could fill that seat, although I wouldn't help with the numbers much--500 hr wienie that I am--but hey... it was quality time, at least for me
I'm coming back out here for his retirement (Can't miss that, it was bad enough missing the reunion), so I'll see you in the Heritage Room sometime next month. Cool down the beer and heat up the dice.
Cheers!
I was bummed about not making Oshkosh, but looking at jumpseating and renting cars and parking and yada yada yada.... and having to get back in time for my trip, I wussed out... Flying in is the only way to go, so hopefully next year everything will align and I'll be camping in the vintage area again.
Had dinner with Crash tonight (Had to do a quick YC touch and go to check on my house), he seemed fired up about the OST. Whatsa matter, couldn't get anyone to fly with you?
Wish I could fill that seat, although I wouldn't help with the numbers much--500 hr wienie that I am--but hey... it was quality time, at least for me I'm coming back out here for his retirement (Can't miss that, it was bad enough missing the reunion), so I'll see you in the Heritage Room sometime next month. Cool down the beer and heat up the dice.
Cheers!