T-38 incident?

[sandman2122]

So I come home from a trip and the wife tells me there was a T-38 incident/accident out of Laughlin. I can't verify this anywhere on the internet - anyone hear about this? If not, I going beat the living h#ll out of that wo........um, I'll talk to her about it.

 

[sandman2122]

Crew okay

Caught the news tonight. T-38 crew out of Laughlin had a bird strike and both guys ejected okay. Happened east of Laughlin, near Bracketville.

 

[Huggyu2]

Are they in C-models yet? Any names?

 

[sandman2122]

The news report said a "C model" but the file picture was, yes you guessed it, a T-37.

 

[talondriver]

Are they in C-models yet? Any names?

Laughlin got it's last C model a couple of months ago. ENJJPT and the Navy TPS '38s are the only ones going through the Boeing barn now.

My question is: was it a PMP jet? And how many birds can you fit in those intakes???

 

[LAFrequentflyer]

T-38C, TN 65-10333, 47 FTW, 87 FTS
low level training, 1 Major and 1Lt got out ok...The Major was the IP... ;-

-LA

 

[CCDiscoB]

Do they have birds down at Del Rio? There's nothing else there. I guess there must be, there's a lake there, from what I'm told. Must have been a big one. Did it go through the windscreen, or take a wing out? I hope the guys are ok. Not many SPs have an ejection at UPT.

And how many birds can you fit in those intakes

Perhaps a Swallow, North African of course. :laugh:

 

[FastCargo]

The Major is laid up at Brooks Army Medical in San Antonio, non-life threatening injuries. The SP was checked out at Laughlin's clinic...don't know if he was released yet.

The IP was a friend of mine I used to fly with down at Laughlin as a reservist. Lots of stick time in the 38.

Birds? Yeah, there are a few...turkey vultures. They're the perfect type to take out a T-38. Big, slow, and like to hang around in flocks right around .5 to 1k AGL. Back in the early 90s, one killed a T-38 front seater when it came through the front windscreen. The incident happened near Abilene, TX and the rear seater (former roomie at the zoo) flew it to Dyess and landed. That incident sparked the change to put in T-38 windscreens rated to 400 kts for a 5 lb bird. However, there have been incidents since then where the bird has smashed through the canopy above the windscreen canopy bow.

Y'all be careful out there!

FastCargo

 

[Terp737]

why no info in the newspaper article on the T-38 class A in '86 (dual ejection on student's dollar ride) and they made an error on the Spofford crash (it was a T-37). Any others to report?

 

[Floyd R. Turbo]

The 38 that had a midair with a 172 in San Antonio sometime around 90 or 91. 38 crew ejected, 172 landed in a field, or maybe on a road, even though everything forward of the firewall except the battery was gone.

 

[Terp737]

I remember that one. The IP was a former student of mine. I guess I didn't teach him how to clear! Good guy. The cessna landed on 1604 minus one engine. Everyone in both acft unscathed.

 

[talondriver]

There's HUD (C model) video of a near miss with a light aircraft during a PIT low level. The IP is at CBM now. It had maybe two frames showing the encounter danger close.

 

[CRJDispatchKid]

I did find this from San Antonio

http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/?videoId=184118,565

 

[Huggyu2]

I remember that one. The IP was a former student of mine. I guess I didn't teach him how to clear! Good guy. The cessna landed on 1604 minus one engine. Everyone in both acft unscathed.

Yeah, that was Perlman! He went through the canopy and didn't even know it. The 172 pilot was the chief pilot about 4 years ago that that flight school at SAT. Lucky guy!

 

[Mud Eagle]

That incident sparked the change to put in T-38 windscreens rated to 400 kts for a 5 lb bird. However, there have been incidents since then where the bird has smashed through the canopy above the windscreen canopy bow.

A couple months ago an IP at Moody took a bird right in the middle of the windscreen over at Townsend range. The glass spidered, but the bird did not penetrate the windscreen (sts).

 

[Fury220]

It's not so much the large, easy to see, single-ship bird that I worry about.


More like the flock of hundred, small, I-won't-see-them-until-a-millisecond-before-impact, dual-engine-FODing kind that's on my mind.

It helps that I'm typically in the rear (sts) with Stanley Birdscreen in the FCP.

 

[SIG600]

That T-38 vs. Cessna story is amazing. I can't believe the thing was still controllable with the huge firewall/speed brake AND the aft CG shift.

 

[Fury220]

That T-38 vs. Cessna story is amazing. I can't believe the thing was still controllable with the huge firewall/speed brake AND the aft CG shift.

From the hearsay I've heard about the story (and you know how reliable that is...), the Cessna was practically uncontrollable. Due to the CG and airflow changes, it entered a series of stalls and recoveries on its way down, and the IP on board made the most of it.

(Stall...recover...stall...recover...crap pants...stall...recover...stall...recover...land.......change pants before the NTSB arrives.)

 

[Huggyu2]

More hearsay:
Apparently, he went down (sts) like a falling leaf, with no real control. Also, "it is said" that the battery (or something else heavy) remained attached forward of the firewall, and had it not remained, the aircraft's CG would have been so far aft that they would have not made it.

 

[LAFrequentflyer]

He used 8 of his 9 lives that day...

One lucky SOB...glad he and the AF guys made out without loss of life.

-LA

 

[mule]

Why all of the "sts" comments? You aren't robots, you can refrain from using your fighter "cranium," "sts," etc. crap on a message board can't you?

Speaking of the "cranium" crap...what are some of the other stuff the fighter boys/girls (you do have a female T-bird wannabe now...so might as well include them) use...or don't use? We could start a whole thread that would go on and on....

Bring on the flames...sts...

 

[Fury220]

Why all of the "sts" comments? You aren't robots, you can refrain from using your fighter "cranium," "sts," etc. crap on a message board can't you?

Sure we could. If we wanted to take the fun out of it.

We could start a whole thread that would go on and on....

Go for it. Start one. This thread is about T-38 mishaps.

 

[SIG600]

This thread is about T-38 mishaps.

That said, the Navy seems to lose 2-3 T-45's per year with only 2 jet training bases. I'm surprised the AF seems to go much longer between mishaps with as many T-38 (training) bases as you guys have.

 

[Fury220]

That said, the Navy seems to lose 2-3 T-45's per year with only 2 jet training bases. I'm surprised the AF seems to go much longer between mishaps with as many T-38 (training) bases as you guys have.

I didn't mean to exclude you guys. I just wanted to prevent a sts pissing contest or something...


Maybe it's due to the single engine nature of the T-45? It's also a newer aircraft. We lost tons of T-38s in its earlier years, but it's since calmed down as we've learned it's Mx quirks and bad tendencies of its pilots. I assume it would be the same way with the Goshawk.

 

[SIG600]

Ya that could be it, the incidents I know of were a majority birds getting sucked into THE engine, and ground handleing issues of the jet leading to runway departures/ejections.

 

[FastCargo]

I remember that one. The IP was a former student of mine. I guess I didn't teach him how to clear! Good guy. The cessna landed on 1604 minus one engine. Everyone in both acft unscathed.

That happened just before I arrived at LAFB. The student on that T-38 flight ended up coming back to LAFB as a T-38 instructor some years later. It was a couple of years I was working with him before I found out he was that guy! Good flyer...guess ejecting didn't faze him too much!

FastCargo

 

[FastCargo]

There's HUD (C model) video of a near miss with a light aircraft during a PIT low level. The IP is at CBM now. It had maybe two frames showing the encounter danger close.

Yea, talked to those guys the day after that incident happened...can you say 'Holy *&($!!!!' The only reason you can't see if the pilot of the civilian plane was wearing glasses was because of the grain of the HUD video. I am NOT kidding...it was that close.

FastCargo

 

[FastCargo]

It's also a newer aircraft. We lost tons of T-38s in its earlier years, but it's since calmed down as we've learned it's Mx quirks and bad tendencies of its pilots. I assume it would be the same way with the Goshawk.

That's always been the way of aircraft (or of almost any machine). There are ALWAYS teething problems when new aircraft come out. Designers and engineers have never anticipated all the potential problems an aircraft can have when it finally 'hits the line'. There once was an old saying..."Never fly the 'A' model of anything." It still applies to an extent...

FastCargo

 

[Huggyu2]

Gee, Mule,... I hope you manage to cheer up and have a Merry Christmas. I didn't think the "sts" would bring you down (sts) so much.

 

[Fury220]

Yea, talked to those guys the day after that incident happened...can you say 'Holy *&($!!!!' The only reason you can't see if the pilot of the civilian plane was wearing glasses was because of the grain of the HUD video. I am NOT kidding...it was that close.

FastCargo

Interesting about that video...

If you have the audio up, you can hear a long, noisy transmission over 255.4 JUST before the near-miss. I've noticed that as a trend...there's almost always a distracting factor that diverts aircrew attention when the sh!t hits the fan.


"Dude...let's just go home..." haha. These guys had a little more self-control than I would have with their colorful use of the English language.